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 Replies: 7 / Views: 6,683 |
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New Member
Germany
40 Posts |
Hello, I have heard that the 20 Franc Coins were selling at a 100% premium in the 70s. But I haven't heard much about counterfeits of those coins, especially not regarding the earlier ones. Are there counterfeits of the 20 Francs Napoleon I, Louis XVIII, Charles X, Louis Philippe and Ceres on the market? If yes, are they well made? And if not, why were the american or british coins heavily counterfeited, but not the early 20 Francs?  |
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
2124 Posts |
Yes, there are counterfeits of all the 20 francs gold coins, as well as of the other denominations (10, 40, 50, 100 francs). In the 70s there were genuine gold copies made in Middle East and Eastern Europe, the profit coming from the overvaluation of the coins compared to their gold value. Later the Chinese came with their tungsten copies. Like for other counterfeits, the quality varies, some have errors like missing or wrong mint marks, edge inscriptions, not quite the right color, etc, while others are harder to distinguish from the real thing.
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New Member
 Germany
40 Posts |
@erafjel: thank you for your response, I have a few more questions:
1. where can I find out more about these counterfeits? I was not able to find any information about it...
2. How common are they? (Especially the better counterfeits).
3. In which way can the color help identifying counterfeits? I have seen many gold coins of the same type varying in color.
4. Are the grading services aware of the fakes and can they identify them?
Sorry for the many questions but I love the french 20 franc coins and want to know everything about them.
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Bedrock of the Community
United Kingdom
17896 Posts |
Edited by NumisRob
06/02/2021 5:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5177 Posts |
Safest way to approach this is to always buy from a reputable source. And even then, perform some tests when you have the coin in hand.
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New Member
Germany
40 Posts |
@NumisRob: the article is good but it shows only one very poor fake... in my opinion this fake is not dangerous at all. However, erafjel mentioned that there are also better fakes with the correct gold content. I want to know more about those...
@NumisEd: I am buying from reputable german bullion dealers, but they are no numismatists. That means that I probably won't get any tungsten counterfeits, but maybe they are unable to identify the counterfeits with the correct gold content.
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
2124 Posts |
The 20 francs gold coins are indeed beauties - French 19th century gold was what once triggered my interest in collecting French coins.  I'm no expert on counterfeits, so I can't give detailed answers to your questions ... But as shown in the article linked by NumisRob, fakes sometimes are too shiny compared to genuine coins. They may also be too pale, all depending on the manufacturing process, so difficult to answer generally. A search for "fausse pièce 20 francs or" will show plenty of pictures of false coins from different angles. Among the genuine gold fakes from the 70s, there were apparently some obvious mistakes, like coins dated 1915 (a year no French gold coins were minted). About grading services, they are certainly aware of these fakes and I trust them to be able to spot them. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
Here's a link to the gold plated lead (plomb dore) counterfeit 20F's that cgb has sold over the years. They are not the early ones. https://www.cgb.fr/archive,modernes.htmlSome are pretty good, some are terrible, but they've definitely been counterfeited a lot. My guess is that the earlier ones would not have been a focus for counterfeiters. They were not trying to fool coin collectors, but to pass the most common gold coins in commerce. The gold coins which were counterfeited the most were the Dutch dukaats by the Russians, and generally with honest commercial intent. The weights and purity are good. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
06/08/2021 08:44 am
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Replies: 7 / Views: 6,683 |
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Posted 06/02/2021 5:09 pm
