1821 Zacatecas Mint 8 Reales Genuine Or Counterfeit

Bob, at best NGC said "not genuine" by the look of the alloy and maybe the sloppiness of the obverse doubling. At worst, they're clueless.

That coin is, at least, a "quasi-official" product of that time and place.



I think you have a overly optimistic view of how much effort they put into a $70-100 coin!! :->>>

hjian You ask:




Wow, that was my first reply when I stopped laughing. That is actually a bit of humor at your expense and I apologize in advance. However, you apparently have not had very many dealings with the TPG companies.

I believe my face appears on "Wanted Posters" in the office of several TPG's.

The TPG's ABSOLUTELY do not treat all coins submitted in the same way.

I failed to reply to your comment about TPG's using the copper depletion ratio to disclose heavily acid cleaned coins - because I thought you were being humorous. That technique is used by professional authenticators not by any of the TPG's. I honestly doubt they are even aware of that technique.

If you are a big submitter of coins, like Heritage, you get:

Lower prices on bulk deals
Higher grades on circulated coins
Fewer rejections overall
Little notice of cleaning
Little notice of scratches
Little notice of counterfeits

If you are a small submitter you get,

Lower grades
Older coins are virtually always cleaned even if VF
Notation of super tiny scratches
and most of all REJECTIONS of your coin with loss of fees.

The TPG's do not for the basic fee:

Weigh coins and record the results versus standard weight
Take pictures of every submission that is encapsulated
Take pictures of every coin that is rejected
Perform specific gravity checks for authenticity
Perform XRF tests (even using handheld) to confirm anything
Actually take the time to look at the edge of a coin.
Spend more than seconds authenticating coins
Achieve an accuracy level of 99% for world coins

The TPGs are very good with US coins. They are also very good at grading MS coins. They boast of a 95% accuracy rate when authenticating - but that includes all of the US submissions. It does not apply to all categories of submissions, like specific countries etc..

They are very best at making money for themselves.

If you take advantage of the guarantee they offer - they will first attempt to get the money from the dealer they graded the coin for. Even if that dealer made an honest mistake and relied on them to authenticate the coin accurately - the dealer will pay the price for submitting a counterfeit or altered coin for grading. I am aware of specific examples of this taking place. Not all dealing with rare seldom seen world coins but if the dealers do not pay up - they are no longer allowed to submit coins. In my opinion it is simple case of extortion.

Authentication is better left to people specifically trained for that and who can honestly say they have a record above 99%. We all make mistakes at times. I know that I do. However 95% correct is such a low bar that almost anyone can achieve that level of accuracy in particular if half of your business is grading MS modern US coins.