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 Replies: 28 / Views: 3,725 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
I recently read an article say that the reason Canada switched to the loon dollar was because the 1987 dies were in properly shipped(a private company instead of brinks etc) and. That the dies were shipped together, but they "went missing" so to prevent forgery they had the loon dollar dies on hand and started the new loonies. Is this true? If so what do you think happened with the real dies and what would they have been worth?
Normally I don't make these kinds of posts but I couldn't find any info on the forum as to why they switched designs. My curiousity at work here lol.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
The RCM created a new design for the new dollar coin as reasons mentioned of the lost original design dollar and they chose the loon design, the loon design was a last minute response to having a new dollar coin. There is still a set of original dollar dies still missing with a reward for it"s return |
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Moderator
 Australia
16812 Posts |
In 1987, Canada planned to switch from the solid nickel dollar to the smaller golden-coloured aureate-bronze-plated-nickel dollar, and withdraw the $1 note at the same time to force people to use the coins. The original plan was to give the new dollars the exact same "voyageur" design as the old nickel and silver dollars, to provide continuity. However, the master dies for the new voyageur dollar were lost in transit somewhere between Ottawa (where the dies were made) and Winnipeg (where the main mint is located). And yes, a subsequent government inquiry revealed the Mint had long had a rather sloppy and insecure practice of shipping dies from Ottawa to Winnipeg; these weren't the first dies that had gone astray, but they were the most important.
The voyageur dies were never recovered. Were they simply lost? Or stolen? Nobody knew for sure. But in order to prevent those lost dies from being used to strike authentic counterfeits, a new non-voyageur-like design had to be implemented. The loon design was a "runner-up" design, which the mint already had on file, so it was easier for them to hurriedly press into service, rather than start an entirely new design process from scratch.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3328 Posts |
@Sap, that what the article I read said basically word for word. I'm more curious about personal thoughts on the matter. They would still exist somewhere if they were lost in transit or stolen(would be an inside job) IMO.
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Moderator
Australia
16812 Posts |
Well, given that Canada hasn't been flooded with realistic-looking Voyageur-loonies, it's safe to say that the dies have not yet been used to make counterfeits. So in that sense, I guess we can say "mission accomplished" for the Loonie design.
It's possible that criminals did indeed acquire the dies with the intent of making counterfeits. In which case, once the Mint's plans to change the design became known, the dies would be worthless junk, a liability rather than an asset, so would probably have been tossed into the nearest deep lake.
If the dies are still an illegal possession - either someone actively stole them, or someone "found" them and decided not to return them to their rightful owner, and decided to keep the dies as artifacts - then it's not something that's likely to come to light within a generation. Just like people who own stolen artwork - they can't openly sell it, or even put it on display where other people will see it, lest word get out that they are in possession of it. So they're probably sitting somewhere buried in someone's collection of illegal objects, where they will remain until eventually an heir and descendant of the "thief", ignorant of the story and of the origin of their objects - will wander into a coin shop with it to try to sell them, or maybe even post an innocent question on a coin forum.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
I believe one set was purchased by a coin dealer and returned to the RCM,but there still is one set missing,cranking out fake dollar coins are a hard way to make money, they are just hard to spend in large amounts, no business will accept, and no banks will accept large deposit, plus it cost the RCM around 13 cents to make a loonie, not much profit left |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
@Sap and John1, to my knowledge both halves are still missing. I see dollar coins fairly regularly at banks just in my area, so even if they only had the voyager half if the die, faking the face side would be easier then faking both. Banks still accept these as dollars but there is no mass fakes iv heard of yet AU+ nickel dollar's are still regularly dropped at bankes for face value.
Even if the dies are not being used for counterfeit reasons I wonder where they ended up. Probably an unanswerable question, but interesting to see opinions. I wasn't sure the article I read was a fact or just online conspiracy lol.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
4911 Posts |
I wouldn't be surprised if the dies found their way into the hands of a private collector who isn't bothered by possessing them. They can't be brought to public eye as I assume they'd be confiscated.
Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
They definitely could not be shown to public eyes without being confiscated and most likely end up in a museum, was just curious about the topic. There would be know way to know for sure where they ended up, who knows maybe I'm a mailroom lost and round lol.
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Valued Member
Canada
402 Posts |
As I recall....the new minting facility in Winnipeg was to mint the new smaller dollar coin and the dies were shipped regular mail from Ottawa { The Culligan diamond [think the British Crown Jewels] was shipped from South Africa to London by regular post for the same reason...to not attract unwanted attention}. Trouble is the dies didn't arrive (at least in time for production to start) and as others have stated out of fear of counterfeits being made a new reverse was chosen
Two other incidental points...in 2017 a silver commemorative was issued as part of a 2 coin set
$1 Pure Silver 2-Coin Set - 30th Anniversary of the Loonie (2017)
and second just a personal anecdote ....I was once shown a roll of loonies that consisted of 50 cent coins that had been planed on 11 sides and all pointed gold....
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1775 Posts |
If this event didn't happen, we would never have gotten my beloved Loon. Personally, I think the dies are long gone. Destroyed by a nervous thief when rendered useless.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
@loonielewy, I figured you would chime in on this one, was there more then one back up design that they had other then the loonie? Idk if the dies would have been destroyed, mayb they ended up with some underground collectors black market collection:p I can just imagine someone having them in a glass case. I wonder if they ever turned up if they would be destroyed or put in a museum.
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Moderator
United States
188052 Posts |
Thank you for this topic, that is a very interesting story behind the loon design.  Quote:
...so would probably have been tossed into the nearest deep lake. Superior, they said, never gives up her dead...  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
@jbuck, it would be fun to go scuba diving metal detecting in any if the great lakes, I live right next to lake Ontario, mayb one day I'll own scuba gear and a good deep water detector.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
There is one problem with the dies hiding in a private collection, as of 2013 there still a reward for it's return by the RCM, unlike an art master piece, one can still enjoy in your private room, a coin dies not so much. The dies were shipped by a courier company and if dumped most likely in the St. Lawrence |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3328 Posts |
If anyone returned these dies"if they still exist" I imagine there would be a huge investigation on who ever returned them, though imagine finding these dies while doing a scuba dive hunt. That would be a nice find.
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Replies: 28 / Views: 3,725 |
Posted 08/31/2021 8:51 pm
