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1968 S LMC: Is This A DDO?

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 Posted 09/30/2021  04:19 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add victoriarose28 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?
1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?
1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?
1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?
1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?

Your inputs would be greatly appreciated as usual.
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John1's Avatar
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 Posted 09/30/2021  05:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With the blurry and too much glare photos, it looks like MD to me?
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ijn1944's Avatar
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 Posted 09/30/2021  06:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm thinking Machine Doubling (MD) as well. Flat and shelf-like. Good example. I've seen MD in the dates of '68 S cents for years.
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 09/30/2021  09:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like MD to me as well.
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 09/30/2021  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why do we call this Machine Doubling? The machine when it get loosened a bit will alter the coin after the strike. On a doubled die, the die is doubled and will show enlarged devices in the centers of the devices. Wider than normal. But Machine Doubling is determined by these affects that can be seen on the coin.
1. The affected devices are either on the outside or inside edge of the devices. On your coin both sides of the date and other devices are affected. On the date, note on the left and right side of the devices, the contour is removed making the devices thinner than normal.
2. Contour reduction is the removal of the slow contour of the devices. What is contour, it is the design curvature of the devices. Note when you look at coins devices, the light color is on the tops of the devices, and the color turns darker as the light gets into shadow.
1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?
Note on the top devices on that image. That is the normal devices. Note there is a light edge that turns into a darker color. On the lower image, you can see where the devices were altered by Machine Doubling on the right side of these devices. The machine slammed the dies into the fresh strike altering those devices. It removes the contour, and flattens the affected area. On your coin I can see it on both the right and left sides of some of the Liberty devices. When the contour is removed/flattened, it also makes glare shine on the area. When you see it on your coin, it is there. But in images that area can show up as glare. So when we look, we don't see what you are seeing, we just see the glare off the flattened MD devices. Here is an image where I inverted the colors and you can see the Machine Doubling on that image, but on the normal image, we don't see it:
1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?
Can you see what I'm talking about. The brown color image is the one posted, but the inverted color image you can see what the owner sees, but on the normal image, that is hidden by glare. All because the contour was removed off the coin by Machine Doubling
3. On a doubled die, the devices are wider in the center. On Machine Doubling the reduction may not be noticed a lot, but the over al size of the devices are normal in every direction. On the set of images, here is two DDRs and one normal die device coin to show what I mean my spread on the devices enlarging them:
1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?
Note that on the lower example, the spread is wider, making the devices even wider than the normal example.
But on Machine Doubling, it reduces the devices:
1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?
On these set of three images, we have the normal coin at the top, the DDO on the center image, but note the third image. The overall look of the size is the same as a normal example, but note the reduction on the devices? They are reducing the size by removing the contour and note as I mentioned in the 1-2 points, the Machine Doubling is on the outer and inner edges of the devices. Note the DDO above it, it is showing spread in the cent of the devices, wider there. So when searching for doubled dies, look for the spread in the centers of the devices. If none is there, move on to the next coin. It is when you go looking too long that you are distracted by Machine Doubling.
4. Can Machine Doubling happen on a doubled die? Yes, because it happens on normal dies, will can happen doubled dies. Here is an example:
1968-S-LMC:-Is-This-A-DDO?
Note on the date of the 4 DDO-001 examples. You see the spread of the devices from the die being doubled. But note the yellow arrows? Those are showing Machine Doubling caused by the machine movement after the strike. Note it? The affected areas are showing contour removal. The affected areas are all flat on those areas. Also note, these were all struck by the same machine, but the MD is slight different. But always on the outside/inside edge of the devices. All in the same direction. All the affected areas are flattened.

So the point being:
1. Machine Doubling is caused after the strike by the machine.
2. The devices are altered removing the contour of the devices leaving that area flattened and reduced. (Even on a doubled die)
3. Light will reflect off the flattened areas when images are taken. Machine Doubling can happen on one or more directions. To a collector of varieties, they prefer not to have Machine Doubling on the examples they purchase. Grading companies do not dock the grade because of MD. They view it as a natural event during the strike. They dock coins for coin contact and color discoloration. The buyers are the ones who look for this as they do not want the distraction of Machine Doubling on their coins. Hope this helps.

CoopHome: Still having trouble identifying Machine Doubling. Consider these facts?
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 Posted 09/30/2021  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add victoriarose28 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you!
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 Posted 10/02/2021  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cons to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Keep posting coop, still trying and this helps! Thank you!
Edited by Cons
10/02/2021 11:09 pm
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