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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,450 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I found another ebay listing for Numismatic Forgeries that is even worse than the one from eastern Europe. https://www.ebay.com/itm/194780573151 This is the coin - just the obverse.  A simple check in any reference book will indicate that this stamp for the Philippines was NEVER used on an 8 reales of this late date. A check of the seller's (ellanova) would have disclosed that this seller has already sold multiple examples of some coins including this 1877. A check of past auctions for ellanova indicates 164 completed sales totaling roughly $ 17,500 in charges. NONE of these resulted in negative feedback. This seller has sold a half dozen late dated Cap and Ray 8Rs for an average of $150 each. Who is buying these pieces of garbage? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7618 Posts |
Quote:
Who is buying these pieces of garbage? People with too much money who do not do their homework! The world is full of them! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
That doesn't even look like a legitimate 1877 8R to me let alone being counter stamped.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5362 Posts |
It is NOT a legitimate 8R. Like I said this person sold two identical copies.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
Nice to see you posting, swamperbob!
Big prices on obvious fakes makes me think it's some kind of money laundering scheme.
Edited by jgenn
01/29/2022 11:25 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
I said: Quote:
That doesn't even look like a legitimate 1877 8R to me let alone being counter stamped.
swamperbob posted: Quote:
It is NOT a legitimate 8R. Like I said this person sold two identical copies.
I stand corrected,  although I don't see where you said that. Thanks for the clarification. I thought this post was about the stamp for the Philippines that was NEVER used on an 8 reales of this date. |
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
Good point jgenn - these are so weird that you would think there's something else going on. Although I've seen a bunch of people recently asking about authenticity of terrible low effort fakes on other forums, so who knows.
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts |
Quote:
That doesn't even look like a legitimate 1877 8R to me let alone being counter stamped.  I don't know much about 8Rs but this has the look of a cheap Chinese fake. |
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New Member
United States
43 Posts |
Been seeing a lot of these come out of Poland on ebay recently. Tried reporting them every time I saw them, but that's a waste of time since they make new accounts all the time. As for counter-stamped counterfeits, I see the George III counter-stamped portrait "reales" which don't even have that "mushed" effect on the back of the coin from the stamping, an obvious cast counterfeit. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
The issue with ebay is not the coin itself but whether the Country of Origin has laws that make production of non-genuine items made to sell to collectors illegal. In Poland, China and many other Communist/socialist countries making these deceptive copies is LEGAL. In those cases, ebay cannot simply stop the sales because it violates international trade laws. The only rule violation that ebay could operate on would be FRAUD provided the country of origin sees the deceptive sale of a fake item a consumer crime. China does NOT. I have never checked on Poland but it might work. Also please stop referring to this type of deceptive copy of a coin as a "counterfeit". These are not counterfeits at all. They were made at a point in time when the items were not "current money" anyplace in the world. Laws against counterfeiting are explicit - these coins do not violate US laws against counterfeiting. |
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New Member
United States
43 Posts |
That makes sense since they're not legal tender anywhere anymore, the word I should've used was forgery or fake.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
jimmybob96 Great. You do get the point. Very few collectors do. They tend to call items like this counterfeit and think that laws against counterfeiting should apply.
Laws against fraud are far clearer and carry higher penalties than counterfeiting statutes because with fraud the crime is for the sale value while with counterfeiting laws the crime is a face value crime.
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New Member
United States
43 Posts |
I think coin collecting is an amazing learning experience, better to listen to people that know more than me and not be stubborn and close-minded.
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New Member
Ukraine
7 Posts |
I believe that fraud (a deceptive sale in this case) is a crime everywhere. The problem is that some countries don't forbid producing numismatic forgeries with no features that would distinguish them from the originals as long, as the manufacturer sells them clearly stating they are copies. The manufacturer then happily sells them to the fraudster violating no local regulations and the fraudster later can easily pretend to be the victim of deception, and there is virtually no way to prove the opposite when these "items" are sold and re-sold cross border on the Internet trading platforms.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,450 |
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Posted 01/29/2022 10:25 pm
