| Author |
 Replies: 14 / Views: 1,163 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2602 Posts |
I expect answers will be varied on this, but here goes: What is the definition of a F vs VF vs EF Buffalo nickel? I noticed something interesting in the Red Book. In my 2005 version the grades for Buffalo nickels were stricter than in my 2007 version. I don't have my books here with me to provide quotes, but I'll do that hopefully tomorrow. Anyhow, it appears that editors of the RedBook (or somebody) made the decision to relax the grading on Buffalo nickels- what used to be F can now be VF, for example. What gives them that authority to suddenly relax grades? This makes a huge difference for some coins, as they jump considerably in value between F to VF or VF to EF. Are you grading more on the 2005 RedBook standards or 2007 RedBook standards, or some other standard?  This series is hard enough to grade without them changing the grading standards on us. Edited by mycrob
01/28/2009 4:47 pm
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1931 Posts |
I wish I had an answer for you. I have a terrible time grading buffalos. I see them all as G. probably really undercut myself sometimes. I hope you get a good answer to this one so I can learn something
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
812 Posts |
I'm not sure, but I think RedBook bases their grading descriptions on ANA Grading Standards, which have changed in the past several years; especially regarding how complete the horn must be in the grades you list. Since so much seems to depend on how the TPGs grade coins, you might check out Heritage Auctions for pictures of what level of detail is currently required for the various grades. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1291 Posts |
I gave up on the grading system as it applies to Buffalo nickels a long time ago. For my own personal set I strive for those that have full horns and bold, 4 digit dates. That used to define a VF - at least. Beyond that, for entertainment and a small revenue stream, I restore dateless buffaloes and sell them on ebay - and I really don't have to worry about grading those. I know this doesn't even approach answering your question - just my way of avoiding the confusion and annoyance of not having one concise grading BIBLE we can all keep on the nightstand. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
After you look at enough Buffalos the grading is relatively easy. All three grades you mention should have all four digits of the date visible. The Fine example will have a distinct Liberty and about 3/4 of the hair detail visible on the obverse. The Buffalo will have horn and tail only partially visible. The VF-20 will have partial feather detail and show more of the tail and horn. The XF will show all the hair details with a well defined rim and the reverse will show an almost full horn and tail. I suggest you register on the Heritage Auction site and look at the myriad slabbed examples of Buffalos they have in their archives. Also an ANA Grading Standards would help as well. best of luck. |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
2602 Posts |
OK, here is what RedBook says on grades of Buffalo nickels, with the relaxing of the grade from the 2005 edition to the 2007 edition: 2005 G: Legends & date readable. Horn worn off. 2007 G: Legends & date readable. Buffalo's horn does not show. (Comment: siminar) 2005 VG: Half horn shows 2007 VG: Horn worn nearly flat (comment- relaxed grade) 2005 F: 3/4 horn shows. Obv. rim intact 2007 F: Horn and tail smooth but partially visible. Obv. rim intact (relaxed grade) 2005 VF: Full horn shows. Indian's cheekbone worn. 2007 VF: Much of horn visible. Indian's cheekbone worn. 2005 EF: Full horn. Slight wear on Indian's hair ribbon. 2007 EF: Horn lightly worn. Slight wear on Indian's hair ribbon. (Releaxed graded, and still can have a coin with no full horn being EF!) No wonder we can't all agree on grading- even the RedBook can't agree with itself from year to year! FYI: I also looked at Indian cent grades & descriptions between those two years and there are subtle differences- with more relaxing in 2007, but it isn't as major a shift as the Buffalo nickels. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2602 Posts |
Okie- I think that link is really helpful because it provides more details OBV and REV as to what constitutes that grade. The only drawback I see is that those grades are more in line with the 2005 RedBook and maybe are now obsolete? Which brings up the question- are the grading standards in the 2007 RedBook considered more current than the 2005 standards? How does this impact on PCGS/NGC graded coins that were graded before the 2007 "relaxation"? Could a lot of F coins be re-graded now as VF and VF as EF? |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
533 Posts |
When I get home this evening I will look in my ANA book, my photograde book, and my Buffalo nickel book, and post all the differences. (unless someone beats me to it...) |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
812 Posts |
Mycrob, I believe you are correct. Coins graded by ANA standards 5 years ago would receive a higher grade now (at least in the F-EF range). What I don't know is whether TPGs used to follow the old ANA standards, and now follow the new standards; or if they set their own standards back then, which ANA then followed. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1745 Posts |
Just for kicks, I added the 1977 ANA Grading Standard. 1977 F: LIBERTY is plain, but merging. 3/4 horn and tail visible. 2005 F: 3/4 horn shows. Obv. rim intact 2007 F: Horn and tail smooth but partially visible. Obv. rim intact (relaxed grade) 1977 VF: Horn is worn, but full. Hair shows nearly full details. 2005 VF: Full horn shows. Indian's cheekbone worn. 2007 VF: Much of horn visible. Indian's cheekbone worn. 1977 EF: Horn and tip of tail are sharp and nearly complete. Slight wear on hair above the braid. 2005 EF: Full horn. Slight wear on Indian's hair ribbon. 2007 EF: Horn lightly worn. Slight wear on Indian's hair ribbon. (Releaxed graded, and still can have a coin with no full horn being EF!) |
|
Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
As far as I'm concerned, grading Buffalos is like herding cats.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
533 Posts |
2005 Photograde: F-12: Obverse: Bold date, 'LIBERTY' seperated from the rim. Reverse: 2/3rds of the horn will show, major detail from the bisons back will show. VF-20: Obverse: The braid and cheek will show some detail but be flat on the high spots. Reverse: Full horn but the top may not be well outlined. The hair on the bison's head will be well worn. EF-40: Obverse: Hair braid and face details very bold with only slight wear on the high points. Reverse: Full sharp horn, tail shows on the hip. Flat spots of wear will show on the head, upper front leg, and hip. My "Complete Guide to Buffalo nickels" from 2006 is very similar to the ANA standards with only some slight differances in the wording. |
|
Valued Member
United States
167 Posts |
grading buffalos from year to year differ, since you could purchase a vf one year and the next year it is called a f and two years later its called an XF.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
533 Posts |
Quote:
grading buffaloes from year to year differ, since you could purchase a vf one year and the next year it is called a f and two years later its called an XF. To the untrained eye, yes this is correct, but here we delve into strikes. Yes, some years are notoriously weakly struck, and as long as they are not too circulated the TPGs can tell the difference... |
| |
Replies: 14 / Views: 1,163 |
|
Posted 01/28/2009 5:27 pm
