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Replies: 107 / Views: 6,642 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
2124 Posts |
Quote: I've always wondered about the origin of the pair of fish That part of the coat of arms is for the Duchy of Bar. The fishes are barbel fish, in French barbeau - or just bar. It could be that the fish are there because there were plenty of barbel fish in the river Ornain which flows through the city of Bar-le-Duc, the historical capital of the Duchy of Bar. It could also be just a word game, playing on the likeness of the names for the duchy and the fish. (The origin of the name Bar for the town of the Bar-le-Duc has been given several differing explanations, including the presence of the fish in its river.) Staying with the 17th century French feudal coins: Charles III Gonzaga, Nevers & Rethel and Arches & Charleville, 1609, liard. A man with many titles: Duke of Nevers & Rethel, Prince of Arches & Charleville, from 1627 also Duke of Mantua and Duke of Montferrat (the two latter as Charles I). Not sure how charming he was. 
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
A lovely example. 
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
2703 Posts |
Thank you for the fish story. That's a beautiful copper piece!
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
9349 Posts |
2 French 2 euro coins depicting Charles de Gaulle  
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
9349 Posts |
2 $1 coins depicting Charles Kingsford-Smith.  
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
9349 Posts |
2 Canadian 25 cent cois featuring Charles de Salaberry  
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
9349 Posts |
United Kingdom 2009 2 pounds featuring Charles Darwin (not sure of the chimps name)  United Kingdom 2012 2 pounds - Charles Dickens. 
Edited by triggersmob 02/25/2022 8:53 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
9349 Posts |
South AFrica 5 cents featuring Charles Robberts Swart. 
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
2124 Posts |
Nice contributions, @triggersmob!  One last Charlie from me, back to where I started, Sweden. This time a forefather and predecessor of our current king. Carl XV, Sweden, 10 francs/1 carolin, 1869.  Now, Sweden has never used francs as a currency, so there is a story behind this one-off coin. But let's first talk about the king on the coin. Carl XV was king of Sweden and Norway 1859-72. And he was a real charmer. Court etiquette was not really his thing, he preferred moving around in society, meeting, joking and drinking with people from all societal strata. He sometimes participated in activities outside the classical royal ones: For example, he gladly took part in fire fighting when there was an opportunity, rushing around giving orders and contra orders - all to the dismay of the professional fire fighters, of course. But what could they do, he was the king ... Hunting was another hobby of his. Here he is with a hunting party (the king in the middle): Public domain, courtesy of DigitaltMuseum/Västergötlands museumHe was generally popular and liked by his subjects. And Carl loved his people back - especially the female part of the population. Being married didn't stop him from having several affairs with actresses and other ladies from the society, resulting in a number of children who were officially fatherless but with a common knowledge of who their father was. His travels around the country also gave him many opportunities to meet his lower ranking female subjects, again encounters that - rumor tells - led to numerous unofficial children. There are quite a few Swedes today who claim descendancy from Carl XV (or his successor Oscar II, also a womanizer), because their great great grandmother met with Carl XV visiting where they were housemaids. The coin then, why a 10 francs coin when at this time Sweden had riksdaler* as currency? It all had to do with the Latin Monetary Union, formed in 1865 by France, Belgium, Italy, and Switzerland. It was based on the French gold franc and member countries struck national but interchangeable gold and silver coins. While Sweden never became a member, strong mercantile forces argued in favor of that. The king, Carl XV, became interested, but instead of membership, these 10 francs coins were issued 1868-72 and used for trade with the LMU countries. The alternate denomination "1 carolin" was just a bit of flattery for the king.** * Same word as German Reichsthaler.** Derived from the Latin name form Carolus, the Swedish words carolin/karolin and carolinsk/karolinsk denote events, institutions, etc related to Carl XI and Carl XII, kings during Sweden's time as a great power during the 17th-18th centuries.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7933 Posts |
Quote: That part of the coat of arms is for the Duchy of Bar. Of course you know I am due to chime in on the arms of Lorraine! In the center is a small shield with a diagonal band containing three alerions (a type of heraldic eagle). This is the oldest part of the arms, used already by dukes of Lorraine circa 1200. The fish entered the arms when the duchies of Lorraine and Bar united in 1430. Most of the other parts came from Rene I of Anjou, who became Duke of Lorraine in 1431. The fleur-de-lis lower left is a longstanding part of the Angevin arms, and the upper left (Arpad / Hungary) upper center (Jerusalem) and upper right (Calabria I think) are also places that had been ruled by ANgevin nobles. The facing lions at the bottom are Guelders (whew!) So, here is an older version of the Charlie (Charles III of Lorraine 35 years older) that started the thread!  
Edited by tdziemia 02/26/2022 11:22 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
1801 Silver Two Reales Mexico CityYep that's Spanish for Charles the Fourth
 
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
2703 Posts |
@tdz Holy mackerel! That must be a Charles III Thaler. I don't ever recall seeing one offered in any auction. 
Edited by t360 02/26/2022 11:52 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7933 Posts |
It's a 1/2 ecu, also called a silver "florin." https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces140214.htmlThey come up occasionally, and I settled for one with damage since all the large Lorraine coins before 1700 are really pricey. And let's not forget the older portrait of @erfjel's Charles IV (again, about 35 years later). This time just another teston   
Edited by tdziemia 02/26/2022 3:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
2124 Posts |
Nice Lorraine coins, @tdziemia!  Quote: upper right (Calabria I think) Aren't you thinking Aragon? Came via Yolande of Aragon, mother of Rene of Anjou who in 1431 married Duchess Isabelle of Lorraine. So, we have done the Handsome Henrys and the Charming Charlies (and before them the Georgies and Stuarts and Tudors). What's next? Anyone for Lovely Louis? I've got a few of those ... 
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Pillar of the Community
  United States
2703 Posts |
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Replies: 107 / Views: 6,642 |