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Question On Design Of Buffalo Nickel And Standing Liberty Quarter

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EDM's Avatar
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 Posted 02/25/2022  08:41 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add EDM to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Were the Buffalo nickel and Standing Liberty quarter specifically designed so that their mint year wore out unreadable quickly to thwart collectors or was this simply a factor of their overuse during the Great Depression? Or, just bad design? Did the Treasury Department/Mint ever comment on this? I know that the 1913 Buffalo nickel design on the reverse was immediately changed to help prevent "Five Cents" from wearing off first, and the 1917 SLQ design was changed, some say "to cover a nude breast", but the reverse was changed as well. These seem to indicate poor design from the beginning.
Edited by EDM
02/25/2022 08:50 am
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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 Posted 02/25/2022  09:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think these were simply design flaws, and certainly not meant to thwart coin collectors.
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 Posted 02/25/2022  09:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, just lousy designs.
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 Posted 02/25/2022  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HappyHippo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love Buffalo nickels and it is so sad to see so many with their dates rubbed off.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 02/25/2022  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "Roosevelt-era redesigns" were instigated to beautify the coinage. "How the coins looked when first struck" was all they really paid attention to or cared about; they don't seem to have done any studies on how the coins would look once severely worn.

There was no government opinion that "coin collectors were bad" in the early 20th century. Both quarters and nickels were being produced for a substantial profit, so any coins that coin collectors kept could be easily and profitably replaced. That coin collectors had the favour of the government is evidenced by the fact that the 1920s saw the beginning of a prolific series of NCLT collector coin issues, in the form of the "classic commemorative" half dollars - none of which were actually intended for issue into circulation.

This is in sharp contrast to the 1960s, when nickels were noticeably less profitable to make, silver coins were being produced at a loss or breakeven costs, and their cupronickel replacements would need to be churned out as fast as possible to try to meet the demand due to the hoarding of silver. "Coin collectors" were being blamed for hoarding and removing coins from circulation. And this is why they made the deliberate design decision to remove mintmarks for 1965-1967 minted coins - to make the coins less attractive to coin collectors. Coin collectors were "the bad guys" in this narrative - and this government disfavour is also evidenced by the almost complete lack of collector coins being struck at this time. Coin collectors were supposed to make do with just keeping the proof sets.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
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 Posted 02/25/2022  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Finally, of course: coin collectors, even back then, would have wanted coins in as nice a condition as possible. Making it so that a well-worn coin is less desirable to a collector but unworn coins would still be desirable, would not stop coin collectors. Especially given that those well-worn examples wouldn't start turning up for several years after the coins were issued.

If a country wants to stop collectors from sucking out coins from circulation, there are plenty of other options they can use:
- Make the coins ugly and utilitarian.
- Never change the designs, ever.
- Remove all dates, mintmarks and other collectable variations from the coins to start with.
- Pass laws proscribing the collecting of coins, such as actually making it illegal to buy or sell coins for more than face value or putting limits on the number of coins that can be legally hoarded.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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kenwright396's Avatar
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 Posted 02/26/2022  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kenwright396 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice analysis Sap.
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mysilveryears's Avatar
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 Posted 02/27/2022  11:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mysilveryears to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
"Pass laws proscribing the collecting of coins, such as actually making it illegal to buy or sell coins for more than face value or putting limits on the number of coins that can be legally hoarded."


how the heck would that ever work? it would just set up a new black market and make a lot of folks very angry.
and what sort of new police force or operation would need to be set up to check every random household for those illicit five gallon plastic water jugs filled with small change that require a forklift to move around?
even my quart mason jars of nickels (i never spend them) are getting difficult for this old-timer to handle. and I will politely guard them with my 2A rights, tyvm
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Sap's Avatar
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 Posted 02/27/2022  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
how the heck would that ever work? it would just set up a new black market and make a lot of folks very angry.

I'm not saying it would "work". I'm saying governments could do it, if they really had it in for coin collectors and/or they wanted to send a message that coin hoarding was evil. They'd probably have to pave the way with several years worth of propaganda before enacting such laws.

Look at Prohibition (of alcohol in America in the 1920s). It's often touted as an example of a failed government policy because it didn't completely stop people drinking - they just drank illegally. However, prohibition "worked" in the sense of drastically reducing alcohol consumption and eliminating its public visibility and social acceptability.

Likewise, prohibiting coin collecting wouldn't make coin collecting go away entirely, but it would drive it underground, preventing people from openly advertising and selling their coins; at the same time, many people wishing to be law-abiding or simply fearing being caught, would comply with the laws and hand their collections and hoards over. If "drastic reduction" is the goal, then "elimination" is a viable strategy.

Believe it or not, there are countries where coin collecting - or at least, certain types of coin collecting - is illegal. In Greece, it is illegal to collect coins older than 1826. The laws have been in place for many decades now and it has become part of Greek culture, being taught in schools that people who collect ancient coins are evil. The policy is supported across the political spectrum; no political party dares disagree with it. People in Greece who continue to collect ancient coins must do so in secret, and would be considered traitors by their family, neighbours and government if they were found out.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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