Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Specializing in Modern Numismatics Shop CCF Members on eBay! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!300,000 items to help build your collection!








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Why Expensive Coins Are Sold Without COA Sometimes?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 2,739Next Topic  
Valued Member
YesOrNo's Avatar
Canada
366 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  10:40 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add YesOrNo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have been following the prices of Maple Leaf Forever platinum coins for many years on ebay. RCM produces this coin annually, with a mintage of between 250 and 325, at $3,100.

These are expensive coins. So one would think the collectors would be very careful and always keep the COA (Certificate of Authentication). However, about one third of such coins on ebay are missing COA, hence at a huge discount. Example:

Why-Expensive-Coins-Are-Sold-Without-COA-Sometimes?

Why it ends up like this? Every time I see an expensive coin on ebay without the original COA, I asks myself the same question. And I still don't have an answer. Does anyone know?
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
9862 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Collector demand for these coins is very low.
They have started their spiral towards bullion value.
Such is the ultimate fate of most precious metal NCLT.
Buy them only because you like them.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Forum Dad
Learn More...
bobby131313's Avatar
United States
24147 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  11:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've never been hung up on COAs. Whole lot easier to fake a COA than the coin.
Pillar of the Community
oriole's Avatar
Canada
5238 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  11:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How much of a discount is there in the SALE price for one of these missing a COA?

My LCS does not pay more for a COA, as almost none of his customers will.
Valued Member
YesOrNo's Avatar
Canada
366 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  2:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add YesOrNo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How much of a discount is there in the SALE price for one of these missing a COA?


Based on my observations of Maple Leaf Forever platinum coins on ebay, the sale price is about $3,000 with COA, and $2,000 without COA.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
hokiefan_82's Avatar
United States
3634 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hokiefan_82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can often find original boxes and COA for sale on ebay and through some dealers. Of course, it may be difficult for such a limited edition as this, however. I think a lot of those come from coins sent to a TPG for grading.
Member of SPMC, FCCB, ANA and ANS.
My U.S. Classic Commemorative Complete Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/278741/
My U.S. Fractional Note Set: https://notes.www.collectors-societ...eSetID=34188
Pillar of the Community
MoneyPenney's Avatar
Canada
2984 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MoneyPenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin you give example of, the Platinum Maple Leaf Forever, is not only missing the COA, it is missing the box, and the capsule.

This seriously drops the collectible value of the coin and pushes it toward bullion value. Besides question of authenticity without the COA, no capsule means the coin has been handled with possible fingerprints and scratches. As a coin collector, I would not touch this coin. The seller is realizing this fact and is discounting the coin but with no buyers yet.

Other coins with no COAS, that is easily explained because some coin collectors store their coins in albums, display cases, etc. They take their coins out of their cases and over time lose the COA or box.

In general, missing or damaging packaging affects the value of collectibles. Just look at toy collecting. Toys with original boxes are much more valuable than ones without boxes. Some boxes are worth more than the the toy itself, especially older toys from the 60's and 70's and earlier.

Edited by MoneyPenney
03/30/2022 3:38 pm
Valued Member
YesOrNo's Avatar
Canada
366 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add YesOrNo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The coin you give example of, the Platinum Maple Leaf Forever, is not only missing the COA, it is missing the box, and the capsule.


Exactly. This is a $3,100 coin and it doesn't even have a capsule. Why a $3,100 coin ended up in such a sad state?

Again, this wasn't the first time I saw this. I have witnessed such tragedies too often.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
vonigohcr's Avatar
Canada
665 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vonigohcr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Based on my observations of Maple Leaf Forever platinum coins on ebay, the sale price is about $3,000 with COA, and $2,000 without COA.


That is extreme... Most NCLT trends to bullion value and I bought and sold mostly through shows and LCS and have never seen a premium or discount related to a COA.
Valued Member
YesOrNo's Avatar
Canada
366 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  4:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add YesOrNo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That is extreme... Most NCLT trends to bullion value and I bought and sold mostly through shows and LCS and have never seen a premium or discount related to a COA.


My observations are purely based on ebay.

Also, I wouldn't sell my rare coins to LCS. In my opinion, ebay is the best platform to sell rare coins because it can reach buyers with deep pockets all over the world.
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16805 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2022  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why it ends up like this? Every time I see an expensive coin on ebay without the original COA, I asks myself the same question. And I still don't have an answer. Does anyone know?

There are all sorts of reasons why a coin is permanently separated from its packaging.

A coin might be bought by someone with an attitude of "I collect coins, not pretty boxes". They buy the coin, and throw the box away. They don't care about potential loss of resale value, because they don't plan on ever selling. Such coins will, however, eventually get sold. Or maybe the buyer simply doesn't have the storage space to keep a bunch of empty boxes.

A coin might get sent off to a TPG by a coin flipper, only to be returned with an undesirable grade (or worse, a bodybag). Seller decides to cut losses and sell for scrap.

A coin might get in a fire, flood or some other natural disaster that destroys the packaging but leaves the coin intact (and a platinum coin would survive both flood and fire perfectly fine). Or maybe the packaging was simply left in a sunny coin shop display window for several years and degraded to the point of having negative value. I've just been given some old 1970s proof sets to try to sell on behalf of a charity they were donated to; the previous owner had neglected them and silverfish have literally eaten half of the COAs. No way am I keeping that COA with those coins when I sell them.

A coin might get stolen and the thief destroys the packaging to remove traceability. Whether recovered by the original owner or not, the coin has lost it's packaging either way.

Whether a coin "suffers" from packaging separation depends entirely on the coin in question. Modern RCM coins like the OP's example are probably best kept in the OGP. Most Franklin Mint coins from the 1970s, on the other hand, are only considered valuable if someone removed them from their packaging as soon as they bought them, because the packaging destroyed the coins. RCM packaging back in the 1960s wasn't much better - even over here in Australia, I know that Canadian coins from that time period are often ruined by poor RCM packaging; I've seen it far too often. So there may even be some veteran collectors from the 1960s and 1970s who learned not to trust packaging from the mints, so got into the habit of routinely destroying the packaging in order to protect their coins.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
MoneyPenney's Avatar
Canada
2984 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2022  04:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MoneyPenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also, I wouldn't sell my rare coins to LCS. In my opinion, ebay is the best platform to sell rare coins because it can reach buyers with deep pockets all over the world.


I wouldn't sell my coins to a LCS either. LCSs are businesses where they need to make a profit to cover the costs of running it. So they will buy your coins at a discount.

If you want full market value you need to sell it yourself. Of course it will take time and effort to sell your coins.
Valued Member
Canada
107 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2022  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zhuyuecai to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All assumptions or reasons why missing COA or original packaging make sense. However, the problem is, this kind of offers are observed too often in ebay for such an expensive coin. All those accidents should not happen so frequently. For grading, then the coin should be in a slab with a PF grade.
Valued Member
YesOrNo's Avatar
Canada
366 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2022  11:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add YesOrNo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Sap Thanks for providing a list of good reasons.

Sometimes I thought those coins might be stolen too. Then there must be too many thefts.

A couple of years ago, there was a 2017 Platinum Maple Leaf Forever coin on ebay. The seller was in Australia. How such a rare coin ended up in Australia is a mystery. The fact it had no COA or box is another. I was confused that day because I don't know if this is a tragedy or miracle.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
vonigohcr's Avatar
Canada
665 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2022  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vonigohcr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wouldn't sell my coins to a LCS either. LCSs are businesses where they need to make a profit to cover the costs of running it. So they will buy your coins at a discount.


It depends... When you get into a good relationship with a LCS, you can do a better deal. I almost never sell my collection but when I do sell items to a LCS, it is usually for in-store credit where I also get a discount from list on the purchase. If eking that final dollar out of a transaction is the goal, then you need to sell privately and ideally face to face such as at a show where you set up your own table/booth. To be honest ebay is too much of a risk. If you are not in the business of buying and selling and don't have a large volume, one fraudulent transaction from a shady purchaser on an ounce of gold blows any margin you may have over the course of a year. While ebay fraud is not frequent... it is also not uncommon and ebay do not support the seller.

Plus also... it is a good idea to continue to support the LCS... or they will go away. This hobby would be much poorer if there were no LCS around and it is already a tough market.
Pillar of the Community
canadian_coins's Avatar
United States
2408 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2022  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian_coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If you want full market value you need to sell it yourself. Of course it will take time and effort to sell your coins.


Spot on MoneyPenney.

Back to the OP, I personally sold some cases and COAs separately so it's possible to find lone coins out there. As long as you are buying from a reputable source I don't see a problem.

Disclamer: I never purchased high dollar gold/platinum bullion anywhere else than APMEX, JMBullion or the big players. That's because I'm paranoid and afraid of fakes.

  Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 2,739Next Topic  

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.45 seconds to rattle this change. Forums