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1958-D RPM Again I Can't Find In RPM Guide. Maybe Because It's Not A RPM? Help

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 Posted 06/18/2022  7:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

1958-D-RPM-Again-I-Can't-Find-In-RPM-Guide.-Maybe-Because-It's-Not-A-RPM?-Help
1958-D-RPM-Again-I-Can't-Find-In-RPM-Guide.-Maybe-Because-It's-Not-A-RPM?-Help
1958-D-RPM-Again-I-Can't-Find-In-RPM-Guide.-Maybe-Because-It's-Not-A-RPM?-Help
1958-D-RPM-Again-I-Can't-Find-In-RPM-Guide.-Maybe-Because-It's-Not-A-RPM?-Help

I am not just taking a picture and telling myself " I will let the others do the research". I go back and forth for 20 minutes and still confused. Where I marked on picture is that remnants of first mintmark or nothing?
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 06/18/2022  8:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well how about this, take a look at this possible match: VV RPM-018
http://varietyvista.com/02a%20LC%20...8DRPM018.htm
Now you need to go back and try to match up the die markers that are left and above of the date and under the Y in liberty - since you didn't provide pictures of them I cannot positively confirm, BUT! But this one is close.
Edited by Dearborn
06/18/2022 8:12 pm
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 Posted 06/18/2022  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CentSation to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 06/18/2022  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CentSation to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

1958-D-RPM-Again-I-Can't-Find-In-RPM-Guide.-Maybe-Because-It's-Not-A-RPM?-Help

Overlay matches, different stage/state
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 Posted 06/18/2022  10:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coppercoins match could be 1958D-1MM-018
http://www.coppercoins.com/lincoln/...ie_state=mds
But this 1958D-1MM-048 might be the same die. I'll try to work up some side by sides of these dies tomorrow. Just measuring with an envelope, they all look very close, but Need Side by Sides to know more. Your coin looks like a second polishing of the devices. Looks like a very fresh polishing at this point when your coin was struck. You have some obverse and reverse die cracks that are interesting on your coin.
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 Posted 06/18/2022  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not so sure about that, I think that the angled lined on Op's coin are vertical, and the one you reference are more at a 45 degree (the same angle as the 9's tail.) Have to admit it is close, but I'm not sold on that one yet. I'm sticking with my VV ref for now. I hope others will chime in soon.
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 Posted 06/18/2022  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just so I get this right. Tell me which pictures and angles you would like to see. Personally I saw no die lines in either place. I did see a die crack in lower bust. I will hustle these photos when I wake up in the morning. Thanks so much
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 Posted 06/18/2022  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CentSation to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1958-D-RPM-Again-I-Can't-Find-In-RPM-Guide.-Maybe-Because-It's-Not-A-RPM?-Help

This is the overlay of 18 & 48 [with dates aligned]. Not that close.

18 is straight up, the OP's is right-leaning as is 48 with the obvious secondary.
Edited by CentSation
06/18/2022 10:50 pm
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 Posted 06/18/2022  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How do you explain the angle of the die scratches being at obviously different angles from the OP's coin to the 048?
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 Posted 06/18/2022  11:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CentSation to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"How do you explain the angle of the die scratches being at obviously different angles from the OP's coin to the 048?"

As I stated before, different die state/stage. Die scrapes do not stay the same over the life of the die.

A line drawn straight down from the tip of the 5 should be enough to show the difference.

Edited by CentSation
06/18/2022 11:20 pm
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 Posted 06/18/2022  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If they don't stay the same over the life of the die, then why do we reference them as 'die markers'?
Edited by Dearborn
06/18/2022 11:27 pm
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 Posted 06/18/2022  11:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CentSation to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As far as I know, the main use for markers is to verify die state/stage.

Many people reference die markers trying to show that they have a variety but, that is backwards. Always the variety then the markers.
Edited by CentSation
06/18/2022 11:41 pm
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 Posted 06/19/2022  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
https://coppercoins.com/lincoln/die...ie_state=mds

Hey Bill, Did you try this one?


It sure seems to match your picture! However


1958-D-RPM-Again-I-Can't-Find-In-RPM-Guide.-Maybe-Because-It's-Not-A-RPM?-Help

In Addition, would this be possible markers? I guess I am asking if these type of things would be something to look for, when trying to locate markers?


1958-D-RPM-Again-I-Can't-Find-In-RPM-Guide.-Maybe-Because-It's-Not-A-RPM?-Help
1958-D-RPM-Again-I-Can't-Find-In-RPM-Guide.-Maybe-Because-It's-Not-A-RPM?-Help

Different stage possibly?
Edited by grospoisson
06/19/2022 10:13 am
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 Posted 06/19/2022  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1.Die scratches are added to a polished die.
2. Die scratches in the open fields can fade with the striking process.
3. Die scratches near a device last longer.
4. Die scratches inside of the device, lasts the longest.
5. Die polishing will remove flow lines, clash marks, Feeder Finger Damage. Leaving the fields looking clear without the flow lines,
6. Each time the die is polished, while it makes the fields look nicer, the devices will get smaller in height and width because of the field reduction.
7. After the second polishing, the devices tends to show more die wear.
8. Aft the third polishing the devices show even more distortion and you start to see more die cracks and chips. These can happen earlier if die clashes another die events happen.
9. When the dies are polished for the 4th time, they make a call to either retire the die, or polish the die knowing it is in the VLDS die state. This rescue will show the most extreme die wear and the smallest devices sizes. So this is the final chance for a die to be polished, or retired. Note on these images you see the affect of strong flow lines around the eyes, the die cracks are there. The extreme die wear on the ONE CENT areas in the last sets of image. So any previous die scratches on the earlier die states are now gone. New markers will appear.
10. Thus depending on the mint placement, the die is a listed one or not. The only thing that doesn't change on a pre-1990 coins. The dies can experience different events that can fast track the polishing of coins, or sometimes a different die is replaced by a damage die, forming a new die marriage.

CoopHome: How are Dies affected by die polishing?
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