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 Replies: 27 / Views: 2,163 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
06/23/2022 11:53 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5675 Posts |
Looks to have mid-AU sharpness, but virtually no luster. If genuine, I'd say AU-53. As I've said before, I would never buy a raw Trade dollar because of how good the counterfeits are. In this one, I'd be a little concerned about some of the stars not being perfectly symmetrical, and not all uniform in size. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36826 Posts |
AU-53 and will probably straight grade. Nice sharp looking coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1694 Posts |
I'm on the AU-53 bandwagon looks authentic.
The stain on the reverse may be a issue straight grading it depending on how dark it is in hand.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11898 Posts |
I think the stars look a little smaller up top because of perspective. The photo was taken at an angle and the coin was tilted back against the seller's computer keyboard. As I corrected the image to bring it back to round, the stars were brought to flat and the ones slightly further away came out smaller, and the ones closer became larger. Kudos to Zurie for his sharp eyes noticing that small change in the size of the stars as you go down the coin.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18684 Posts |
due to lack of luster I have to go with AU53 also. my only concern is looking at the purple stained area on the reverse to me it looks like it was cleaned. imo natural toning does not stop that sharply. I think it had an old cleaning and not 100% certain she would grade straight
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3659 Posts |
I'm hesitating on this one.  Take a close look at the date, particularly left of the base of the "1" and below the upright of the "7." Are these possible tooling marks? Look at EPU. Do the letters look a bit rounded? Look above the "TA" of STATES. There is a lump, and that is a known diagnostic for one of the better counterfeits for this date and variety. The known counterfeit generally appears to be a cleaned mid-AU. That's pretty close to this coin. The photos here are a bit blurry, so it is hard to see the details on enlargement of the pics. I sure hope I'm just being overly suspicious here, but I get the wrong feels from the appearance of this coin. Edited by fortcollins
06/24/2022 2:25 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Thanks @fc. Would you be able to provide any reference to the markers/characteristics of the known counterfeit?
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3659 Posts |
I'm going to have to hunt for the reference. I know ANACS found that counterfeit, and it created a pretty good buzz here in Colorado when they flagged it. It's a very good counterfeit. I've seen a couple of them over the years on bourse floors, too. I'm thinking this was 8 or 10 years ago. Let me hunt it down and get back to you on it. EDIT: Found it! It was reported in Coin World back in the day. Edited by fortcollins
06/24/2022 3:26 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Thanks again @fc. Although I see your point, I was looking at the pictures in the article and the coin just looks too crudely executed to be comparable to this coin. The counterfeit diemaker was not even close to coming to the level of engraving exhibited by the coin in this thread. Looks like the fake used a primitive design transfer process.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
06/24/2022 3:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
I would also posit that the die marker is not the same. In the counterfeit, the die marker is close to and almost touching the dentil. In the coin in this thread, the die chip is far away from the dentils of the coin. I don't think the position of the die chip could move if it was produced by the same die.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4469 Posts |
Here is a PCGS die pair that matches the OP coin for date and CC position. The OP coin does have a number of bumps on obverse and reverse. I could not match any of the bumps to the OP and PCGS coin.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
And as @Slider23 points out, the left is the counterfeit and the right is the coin in this thread.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Another difference that I see is that the distance between the dentils and the TA lettering appears to be tight, at less than the height of a dentil in the counterfeit. The die chip takes up most of that space. In the subject coin, there is a lot more room and it appears that there is at least 1.5-2x the height of a dentil between the dentils and the lettering. The die chip takes up just half of that space. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.comEdited by numismatic student
06/24/2022 4:30 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11898 Posts |
Another interesting feature of this coin is that stars 1-4 and 12-13 exhibit prominent doubling.   IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Replies: 27 / Views: 2,163 |
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Posted 06/23/2022 12:21 pm
