Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
300,000 items to help build your collection! Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes. Royal Estate Auctions - $1 Coin AuctionsVancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

How Far Back Can We Go? Seventh Edition! Ended At 1380 Waiting On 1379

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 5,946 / Views: 241,992Next Topic
Page: of 397
Moderator
Learn More...
Spence's Avatar
United States
34472 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2023  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In light of the winter storms, I'm bringing us up to Sweden today. This Half Öre was minted in 1570 AD:


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
erafjel's Avatar
Sweden
2124 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2023  05:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
finally for this year, my rarest coin (R4 probably) with a Holland counterstamp of the Dutch rebels: a half thaler from the city of Cologne dated 1570

Very interesting coin!

Quote:
This Half Öre was minted in 1570 AD

Pillar of the Community
1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2023  07:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks tdziemia and erafjel


Quote:
I understand it is the countermark that makes it rare


it is the combination:
the half thaler is R2 (like all thalers from the 16th century, the halfs are rare)
perhaps only two of those are counterstamped

so R4 is the most likely rarity factor (2-4 pieces known)
Pillar of the Community
1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2023  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1569

When compared to the second (1571) and third revolts (1576) it is clear that there is much less numismatic material available that connects to the first revolt against Spain (1566-1570). The rebels which were also known as geuzen / geux were of course less organized in the beginning of the revolt and means to make jetons and coins were not yet available at that moment. There are, however memories to the suppression of rebel actions. Below is an example: a jeton that mentions opposition of the city of Utrecht to the plan of the duke of Alva to levy the tenth penny (10% taxes on all sales, including clothes, food and beer, a bit like our current VAT). The states of the Netherlands were much opposed to this tax which Alva had proposed to install. Interesting detail is the mention of the beggars (geux) on the reverse side of the jeton.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

Dugniolle 2492 Utrecht 'Punishment of Alva of the citizens of Utrecht who opposed against the tenth penny'
OBV Portrait of Philippe II PHS D G HISP REX CATHOLCVS
Kz Coiling snake between the letters G, E, V and X (GEUX = beggars) HINC ILLE LACHRIME (this explains the tears)

Utrecht had to pay, like the other states. The deal that was concluded was a yearly tax of two million guilders to avoid the implementation of the tenth penny. Perhaps this half Bourgondische Kruisdaalder (demi ecu de Bourgogne) of the province of Utrecht may have served to pay the taxes.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

finally a daalder from Cambrai in the most Southern part of the nineteen provinces of the Netherlands.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
191288 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2023  10:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We are now 400 years before I was born. Lovely examples!
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7979 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2023  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A 1569 4 groat coin from the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth with Sigismund Augustus featuring the latest Baltic beard style (kinda hipsterish)
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
Moderator
Learn More...
Spence's Avatar
United States
34472 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2023  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Despite the darker toning, this is a brother to @tdz's coin:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2023  07:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1568

This year marks the beginning of the 80-year war between the low countries (later United Provinces) and Spain. The first revolt, however had started two years earlier with the iconoclastic fury (the beeldenstorm) which was a protest against the catholic church and the oppression of calvinism and lutheranism in the Netherlands. The storm of protest was "bottom up" starting in small religious communities. The local nobility was willing to calm down the situation and restore order. But Margaretha of Parma, regentes in the Netherlands, exaggerated in panic in a letter to her stepbrother, king Philippe. A discussion how to handle the situation followed at court in Madrid. Some advisors recommended a moderated reaction. But others like Fernando Álvarez de Toledo y Pimentel, third duke of Alva recommended severe military intervention and Philipe inclined to this idea. So in late 1566, Alva was sent to the Netherlands with an army of 10,000 and unlimited authority to restore order by force. Historicians like Geoffrey Parker (author of a great book: The Dutch Revolt) wonder why Philip did not listen to his more moderate ministers. What a different outcome may have followed ....

One of the first actions of Alva, when he arrived in Brussels in 1567 after a long march of his army, was to install a new judicial organ, the Raad van Beroerten (Conseil des Troubles) aka as Bloedraad. This Council of Turmoil was operative during the next five years, resulting in the mere fact that more than a thousand people were convicted and executed, often just on basis of opinion (not real juridiction). Antother eleven thousand people were exiled, to England, North Germany, all their property being confiscated. The two most known persons being executed where the leading nobles Lamoraal van Egmont and Philippe de Montmorency (the counts of Egmont and Hoorne). On June 5, 1568, these two leading figures in the low countries, widely loved for their commitment and honesty as leaders, were beheaded on the Grote Markt / Grand Place in Brussels. They immediately became heroes of the resistance of the Netherlands to what was called the Spanish tyranny. William of Orange was one of the few leaders of the resistance who could escape in time out of the clutches of the Raad van Beroerten and he would operate on safe distance from Alva until his death in 1584.

Below the portraits of Egmont and Hoorne and a statue erected in the 19th centory at the Petit Sablon / Kleine Zavel in Brussels, picturing Egmont and Horne walking to the scaffold on which they would be beheaded.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

Below I show again the Bourgondische Kruisdaalder from Antwerp, today because of the date of the host coin. Interestingly this piece would travel by trade to the North, so that it would be countermarked (5 or 6 years later) by the rebels in Holland. A small piece of silver but also testimony of an ongoing fire of revolution that had not been completely quenched by the iron fist of Alva.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

This ends my 80 day story of the 80 years war. It was fun, also a time consuming endeavor. From now on I will just post coins with a date, when I have one in my collection
Edited by 1c5d7n5m
12/02/2023 07:28 am
Moderator
Learn More...
Spence's Avatar
United States
34472 Posts
 Posted 12/02/2023  8:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This ends my 80 day story of the 80 years war.


Amazing work @1c5! This has been quite a treat for me to read. Thx for your efforts and sharing your amazing collection.

This is a Groschen from the Swiss Canton of St. Gall dated 1568 AD:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Bedrock of the Community
NumisRob's Avatar
United Kingdom
18069 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2023  05:11 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1567 English sixpence of Queen Elizabeth I:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
erafjel's Avatar
Sweden
2124 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2023  06:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Quote:
This ends my 80 day story of the 80 years war.

Amazing work @1c5! This has been quite a treat for me to read. Thx for your efforts and sharing your amazing collection.

I can only agree in full! It has been a pleasure to learn about the dramatic history of the Low Countries, superbly illustrated by your marvellous collection! For me, it has sparked an interest in the coins from this place and era, an interest which has so far resulted in a couple of purchases (nothing nearly as spectacular as your collection), and more to come. Probably they will show up here in some context in the future.
Pillar of the Community
1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2023  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks spence and erafjel, it was fun to do this !
happy to read it sparked new ideas & interest to collect

for 1567 a jeton, referring to the fact that after the chaos in end of 1566, the nobility of the Netherlands (including Egmont, Hoorne and Orange) begged via a petition, given to Margareth of Parma, for clemency and lienency from the king (context see 1568). One of the nobles standing next to Margareth would have said "N'ayez pas peur Madame, ce ne sont que des gueux." (don't be afraid Madame, these are but beggars). This is why the rebels would from then on be called the beggars, les geux, de geuzen.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379

1567 Dugniolle 2454 'The Netherlands beg Philip II for leniency'
OBV: portrait of Philip PHILIPP R P P EX HISPA EXPECT 1567
REV: Globe on spear and bundle of arrows; scales above and temple below
on both sides CLEMETIA COMITE, surrounded by laurel wreath

Edited by 1c5d7n5m
12/03/2023 07:31 am
Moderator
Learn More...
Spence's Avatar
United States
34472 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2023  08:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This small, uniface Pfennig is from the German Archbishopric of Mainz and is dated 1567 AD. It was issued by Daniel Brendel von Hamburg and is attributed as Saurma 2526. The number six is clear enough, but you gotta squint a bit to see the seven to the right of the shield.

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7979 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2023  09:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Amazing work @1c5! This has been quite a treat for me to read. Thx for your efforts and sharing your amazing collection.


I could not agree more! Seeing the image of the statue of Egmont and Hornes stirred up some memories from long ago and more recently (I passed through the square on a brief visit in April). Though at that time I had little of the awareness of those historic events that I have now!

Another small 2 denar piece for 1567 bearing the monogram of Sigismund Augustus of Poland and Lithuania (just two days until we enter the era of the Lithuanian half groat):
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
Edited by tdziemia
12/03/2023 09:55 am
Pillar of the Community
1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 12/04/2023  03:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks tdziemia

I share what you describe for visits of the Grote Markt / Grand Place in Brussels: for many year ignorant of the place were the scaffold was placed in 1568, but now - when you know of the historical even that changed the fate of the whole region - it makes a difference.

Below a 1/5th Philipsdaalder from the Province of Gelderland

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Seventh-Edition!-Ended-At-1380-Waiting-On-1379
  Previous TopicReplies: 5,946 / Views: 241,992Next Topic
Page: of 397

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.63 seconds to rattle this change. Forums