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 Replies: 17 / Views: 1,799 |
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Valued Member
United States
358 Posts |
I posted this in the wrong subforum last night. My apologies! This Lincoln Shield cent appears to have some interesting doubling on the bowtie, and thickened/notched letters in LIBERTY. Could this be a new doubled die? Thanks for taking a look and I welcome your comments.     Edited by mb560600
08/31/2022 10:24 am
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Valued Member
 United States
358 Posts |
Also, here is a close-up image of ERTY in LIBERTY. The left portion of each of these letters are thicker in shape, and the right side of each exhibits notching.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
358 Posts |
Coop, I previously looked at the PCGS images of the 2017-P and found what appears to me to be obvious differences. I looked again and upon re-examination, IMHO, the Bowtie on this coin differs greatly. There is significant thickening and separation in the knot extending North to South that is quite different. Also, in ERTY of LIBERTY there is thickening on the left side of each letter, which is different. Maybe not a DDO but -- do a side by side and you will see differences from a normal 2017-P LSC. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
I'll take another look later on. Sometimes it takes different examples, as die states, die polishing and other things can alter the base design. So it will take some more time to tell for sure for me to see what could be going on.
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Valued Member
United States
358 Posts |
For purposes of comparison, below are images of a "normal" 2017-P LSC with a Bowtie that is not doubled in appearance, nor with any letters in LIBERTY that appear thickened or notched. The obverse is normal in appearance.  Below, this close-up of the normal coin depicts a Bowtie with a nice rounded knot, as compared with the subject coin which has an enlarged knot separated significantly in the center north/south.  Below is a close-up of the normal coin depicting the letters ERTY, which do not have left-sided thickening and right-sided notching on as we see on the subject coin.  If the subject coin is not a DDO, then what is the cause of the doubling? Thanks in advance for your comments. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8748 Posts |
There are two known doubled working hubs that Wexler lists, yours looks to be the second, 2017-P 1¢ WWHO-002. There were bunches and bunches of the minted, so no worth. Here's the link. https://doubleddie.com/2318537.html-makecents-
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Valued Member
United States
358 Posts |
Thanks for your response, makescents.
However, there is nothing on the Wexler site for WWHO-002 indicating a doubled working hub affecting Lincoln's bowtie. Do you know of any such? I would have thought this would be a noteworthy part of such a variety.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8748 Posts |
I did a side by side of your pics. The suspected DDO is a closer pic though, so it's not the best comparison. In my opinion, judging from the appearance of the rest of the coin, it's a later die stage and just spread some because of this. This would also explain the lesser detail in the suspected DDO. If you feel that strongly about it, send it in but I think it will come back as 2017-P 1¢ WWHO-002.  -makecents-
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Valued Member
United States
358 Posts |
Thanks for your side by side visuals, makescents. Really helpful. From my point of view, the differences in the bowtie are significant enough to seek an opinion about a possible new discovery. But, I'm interested to hear what others in the Community would do if they discovered this coin. Just keep it it as an oddity, or send it in for possible confirmation as a new DDO? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8748 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Depending on the die states you are comparing. To me it looks pretty much normal. Closer view of EDS example tie area:  Note how much die polishing has affected the dies on your coin images? Edited by coop
09/01/2022 6:42 pm
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Valued Member
United States
358 Posts |
Coop, I do not understand. What evidence is there of any die polishing on the subject coin? Can you point it out? Furthermore, how would purported die polishing have anything to do with the doubled appearance of the Bowtie on this coin?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
876 Posts |
Trust your gut. Send it in. Then follow up post.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Note the little Rising areas near the Bow tie? When the dies are polished, the field on that area, polishes off some of the fields and the sub devices on that area. On the image I posted it was a fresher die state than the other images posted. Thus they were affected by the die polishing as the dies aged.  With the removal of the fields, part of those sub devices were removed on that area reducing those devices. |
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Valued Member
United States
358 Posts |
Coop, thanks for following up. Your response raises more questions.
The scenario you pose is based upon the assumption that there was a die polishing event that resulted in the alteration to the image of the Bowtie on this coin. What evidence can you point to on the coin that this is indeed a later stage die that merited a polishing and created an alteration of the device (the bowtie) at the Mint?
Also, you have not addressed the ERTY doubling in LIBERTY. Is this hub doubling, or the result of polishing?
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Replies: 17 / Views: 1,799 |
Posted 08/30/2022 10:38 pm
