Questions From Readers: New Topic

Are there some subtle tips to identify a doubled letter or date.
First off, the devices can vary in size according to the die state.

A polished die will show reduced sizes of devices.



As the die start to break down the devices can get mushy and enlarge unevenly.


But for a doubled die, the devices on a fresh die will be enlarged larger than normal size on the centers of the devices.

Depending on the die class they are hub doubled, this can be in different directions or distorted on the single squeeze dies.

So they will appear taller/wider than a normal set of devices. So looking at the center of the devices will be the first clue as to hub doubling. (doubled die)
Multi Hub dies:










Single squeeze dies:
Incuse Devices



Raised devices on the 2013 DDR-002:







So far I gathered that doubled serifs on letters are a good indication and the size of the double in question should not shrink the letter.


Sometimes they can show on the serif edges of devices.
Sometimes the hub doubling just enlarges a side of the devices. According to where it is located, the devices can look different with split serifs. But sometimes Machine Doubling can make it look like a split serif. But that can vary from strike to strike as Machine Doubling and coin damage will not always be the same. But a split serif will show the same, in that same die state. So look at the centers of the devices first. They will be the first area to look at.

As far as I can tell MD causes the letter to thin out? I was wondering if I am missing some other important fact?
Machine Doubling doesn't wear out the die. it just clips the devices with movement of the machine. These will most often affect one side of the devices, with a 90 degree edge on one side of the devices. (the other three will be normal) This removes the contour of the die, so that the angled edge of the devices is shoved aside. (altered) That side of the devices will be reduced on that area. This is caused by the machine.



MD will occur all in the same direction?
Not always. If the machine is very loose, it can swing in what ever way it want to move. But then it is slightly loose it will move in a straight direction. (it doesn't always follow the same path from coin to coin) On a doubled die, the die shows the same exact doubling on each coin, but die wear can alter some of the devices as the die ages.

My two main questions are first : When I see extra thick letters or numbers is that an indication of?
This can vary. Hub doubling on a doubled die can see minor or strong or in between. Die wear can also make devices look larger. But Machine Doubling always reduces the size of the normal devices. ( Machine Doubling can also appear on a doubled die)

But another factor on especially older coins, the devices can be flattened and enlarged. (Also compare examples only from the same year as they can be different with different design that can change from year to year or remain the same for several years) But if they are wider than normal, it will likely be noticed on the centers of the devices.

Second question (where I am confused is there can be doubling on liberty but only a few letters and this has me stumped?)
Well this is a two fold question: On the older style of dies the locations of doubled dies are different than the single squeeze dies. How? On the multi-hub dies, the doubled dies are more towards the outer edges of the coins design. On the Single squeeze they can be more in the central areas of the design. On Liberty, when you check the files on the DDO's they can be affected differently on each type of die creations. Sometimes all the devices are affected on a doubled die on Liberty. On the single squeeze dies they can also be affected that way, or the RTY and Date could be affected. All depending on the movement of the hub on the newly created dies. The hub doubling can be on the tops of the devices or on the bottoms of the devices or sides of the devices. Depending on the that dies was hub altered the die. Sometimes doubled dies will be stronger on one area and get weaker going across the word or phrase. It all depends on the alignment of the hub on the die and if it was a multiple hub die it can had double/triple/quad doubling on the devices. (and vary in strength of hub doubling)
Tripled:


Quad:

Best way to learn what to look for is to look at the listing for that year to see what is happening on those doubled dies. Then you will have a better idea as to what to look for on that years doubled dies.

For instance G and O may be doubled but not the D in god. A lot of the RPMS I have been finding match up exactly to the picture but the die markers are missing, Is it possible I have an earlier or later stage.


Markers can some, come and go for die scratches on a die. A you mentioned die states will vary. If your coin was struck before the die event happen, it will be missing that die event. Scratches fade. But die cracks remain on the location. They can get worse with age and enlarge and eve show chips/breaks/even Cuds can develop with continued use of a die.