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1802 Draped Bust Cent - Grade Opinions Please

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paralyse's Avatar
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12057 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2022  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
EAC is just a coin club and does not offer grading services of any sort.

Some of the members of EAC did produce a guide (noted by Germanicus) on grading early copper, but it is only a guide.

CarrsCoins makes excellent points. Descriptive (net) grading is a way to help arrive at a price for a coin that would just be given a Details grade by a TPG. Unlike modern or later classic coins (e.g. Morgan dollars, Mercury dimes, Liberty Seated half dollars, whatever) early copper is rarely found in "perfect" condition and so issues such as porous or flawed planchets, light corrosion, old cleaning, etc. do not necessarily make a coin "undesirable" especially for scarcer varieties.

Since there may be fewer than 100 known examples of a variety, for instance, net grading allows a buyer or seller to determine a market value for that variety even with no photos at all. Start with a known sale result for an EAC graded coin. Let's say that at the last EAC sale an example of that variety with good eye appeal, no major issues and a sharpness grade of VF35 sold for $1,000. Your own example of the variety that you want to value has the same VF35 sharpness but has an old cleaning, a rim ding, a few light hairline scratches on the bust, and some light porosity or pitting on the reverse. You decide that you think your net grade would be around F12. Now you can look at other auction or sale results, or guides like CQR or Penny Prices, for identical coins graded F12, giving you some idea of a value for your coin.

The same cannot be said for buying a coin "sight unseen" based solely off a TPG grade like "VF details", a range which covers VF35 to VF20! The coin could have a very minor technicality that made it not straight grade on an otherwise very nice example, or it could have major damage or defects that completely devalue the coin or ruin its eye appeal, but without photos you have no way of knowing, and so you can't really put a value on it.

There is still trading that goes on within and without EAC of coins that have no photos available -- (mail lists, etc) -- net grading / descriptive grading gives you more confidence in purchasing such coins because you at least have some idea what's going to show up in your mailbox. It may seen anachronistic these days in this era where auction sites have all the high-res photos you could ever want of any coin you want to buy, but that wasn't the case 30-40+ years ago, where auction catalogues often only included plate photos of particularly noteworthy, rare, or valuable coins, and the rest of the listings were purely descriptive.

Personally, I enjoy descriptive grading, since I can tell you a descriptive grade on a coin I own and you'll have a very good idea of exactly what it looks like, without ever seeing it!
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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CarrsCoins's Avatar
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756 Posts
 Posted 09/21/2022  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CarrsCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
you dont send coins to EAC for grading. they arent a service.

EAC is the Early American Coppers club. they are one of the oldest coin clubs in america. one of their founding members was william sheldon, who came up with the 70 point grading scale we all use today. they pride themselves on being strict graders who stick to consistent standards.

over time the eac grade and the market (or slab) grade have diverged. eac has been consistent. an EAC vf 30 from 1960 is the same as a vf 30 today. thats not the case with the slabs.

if you want to deal in high end early copper its best to be at least familiar with the system. most of the advanced collections have used that standard. most of the condition census uses that standard as well. the big buyers and big sellers use EAC grading with a high degree of consistency.

the hype about eac comes from them being the largest specialist coin club on the planet. the members are the owners of the majority of the condition census copper and they get together and show them to each other at their convention every year. the club as a whole produces grading guides, offers grading seminars, has great club auction and highly professional journal called pennywise. they have some of the smartest, most knowledgable and kindest people ive met in coins.

i teach the EAC clubs grading and Counterfeit Detection seminar at their convention. I also teach the EAC class at the ANA summer seminar. if you guys want I can open up a topic about the differences between EAC, technical and market grading. it might be better to have that discussion in its own thread.
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jacrispies's Avatar
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3848 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2022  03:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
net grading allows a buyer or seller to determine a market value for that variety even with no photos at all

I agree with you, but would like clarification on a specific subject on EAC grading. Buying sight unseen EAC seems to have problems as well. Let's say there are two coins graded EAC VF-35, where one is a smooth chocolate with no distractions, and the other is uncirculated with corrosion and rim dings. Wouldn't the original VF-35 command a higher price being without problems?
Suffering from bust half fever.
Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955
Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves.
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panzaldi's Avatar
United States
18687 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2022  07:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks CarrsCoins for the CAC insight. I never really looked into it and what they did. all these years I thought they were just a grading company


Quote:
if you guys want I can open up a topic about the differences between EAC, technical and market grading


I'm betting a lot of collectors have no idea what CAC is so I think a discussion topic on this would be interesting


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jpbone's Avatar
United States
1959 Posts
 Posted 09/22/2022  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jpbone to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Regardless of EAC etc. Jason (me) puts this coin at a minimum of a strong 45. 50 wouldn't be out of line imo. I've been doing this for a long time. This coin has very little to complain about.
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paralyse's Avatar
United States
12057 Posts
 Posted 09/24/2022  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@jacrispies -- of course the value will be different based on eye appeal and your preferences. Choice, Average+, etc will bring more than scudzy coins with low eye appeal.
However, if you have a good descriptive grader they will make sure to include information about color, surface disturbances, etc. in the description. I've seen "color sets" with at least 20 or more different colors, and descriptions for each: walnut, chestnut, mahogany, dark cocoa, milk chocolate, tan, deep brown..etc
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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Adam590's Avatar
United States
755 Posts
 Posted 09/26/2022  10:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam590 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like this coin--it's a great specimen! I think AU(50) isn't out of line...
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