1853 Silver Seated Liberty Dollar: New Photos!

This is a tough call. Not for the grade - I think ShadowCreator got that right - but for value. The pics are insufficient to prove original surfaces, and that little detail is the difference between it being an $800 coin and a $1600 coin.

Unless the seller has a stellar reputation for quality, I'd move on. This just isn't one you want to buy raw, online. Unless, of course, you can get it for $800.

Sigh. I don't seem to be getting any better at this at all. I trust your experience and, therefore, your grading opinions more than my own, and appreciate your sharing both with me. I really thought the photos were large enough and lit well enough to see the detail pretty well, albeit not necessarily ideal. Yet, I find our far more expert members regard this coin an object for caution or even ridicule.

It would be most helpful to this struggling novice grader to be able to see what is so disturbing. This ebay seller is a power seller with a 100% feedback and allows for returns. Thanks for any further guidance not only to the conclusions, but to the method at arriving at them.

Thanks for the tip on what to look for. I am in the process of obtaining better pics.

If you get it for way less than typical price for even a cleaned one or something though, you should be able to get a good price for it when selling though, right?

I can't be 100% certain, but I agree that it looks suspect. Again, the photos are at an angle and poorly lit, but it still looks like an AU+ detail coin. Since the seller has a return policy, go for it if you can get it for less than cleaned AU coins typically go for.

About half price, maybe. That's about the going rate for average, decent looking 'cleaned' coins. Extremely cleaned ones (I doubt this has been) can go for only 20-30% of normal. Light cleaning can knock off less, and if it's a key date, it can knock off even less.

Yes, glossy appearance, excessive brightness, and dullness can all be reliable indicators of cleaning. When a coin is 'dull', its more likely that it was lightly cleaned and then retoned, which is way better than a VF coin having the shine of a BU coin. Excessive brightness/reflectiveness, as I learned the hard way, can also mean that coin has been dipped, which usually isn't as bad as a harsh cleaning.

There's an important point to be made here (gosh, I use that line too often!).

A cleaned coin offers no "generalities" to the learning numismatist. For every "rule," there's an exception when it comes to appearance. The only way to learn to identify cleaned coins is to hold them in your hands. Of course, there are always examples which are plainly obvious in any decent photograph, but equally there are plenty of cleaned coins which not even an expert could depict in a photo without a measure of luck.

If I call this coin "cleaned," it's a guess, plain and simple. I base my opinion not as much on the photographic evidence as the likelihood that the coin would be in a slab if it weren't cleaned. The photos are quite good enough to grade from, but not good enough to determine surface originality.

I'm well aware that this is a tough coin to find for sale in any grade. Even cleaned examples carry a pretty hefty price tag. To balance that, I would mention that Heritage has already offered 6 examples for sale in 2009. They're not that rare.

Do not risk "original surfaces" money on this coin.