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When Does A Researching Collector Become An "Expert"?

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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2022  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Apparently as soon as they join a group on Facebook.
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2022  11:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting discussion.
Not least because of the "relativistic" aspects.

Being published in a peer-reviewed journal generally requires some kind of innovative contribution to a field.

I would argue that one could still be an expert in a field by having a strong grasp of the current state of knowledge, and continuously updating that knowledge, but without having made their own innovative contribution to the field.

As for the "relativistic" aspect, I am also thinking that some active members here would be considered "experts" on certain areas by collectors who know very little in those areas, or who are novice collectors in those areas, perhaps with aspirations to become experts.

But maybe in another environment they would not be considered experts?


Edited by tdziemia
11/07/2022 11:33 am
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oriole's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2022  11:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Taking a leaf from science and technology, and as was noted by a few others, the expert is acknowledged as such by their peers. They are a "go-to" person whose opinion is highly valued as it is generally correct. Numismatics being partly an art. you can't have certainty all the time so there is an element of opinion, but an expert is usually right. How long it takes to gain this expertise is quite a different issue, I think. Expertise is determined by the results, not the time spent. Certainly being published in a peer review journal would enhance someone's credibility, but I do not believe that this is a requirement. Given how broad the subject of numismatics is, I think that expertise would by necessity be somewhat narrow.
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Notatzaddik's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2022  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Notatzaddik to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Person X becomes an expert when well-known and and agreed upon recognized experts ask the opinion of person X. Of course, where did the first expert come from :-)?
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 Posted 11/07/2022  12:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When Coinfrog tells me I've passed all my tests and have moved on to the Numismatic kingdom .
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2022  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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When Coinfrog tells me I've passed all my tests and have moved on to the Numismatic kingdom .
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newguy22's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2022  2:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add newguy22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Does being an expert in numismatics require having experience handling physical examples of particular coins? For example, could a person be an expert in Capped Bust Half Eagles without ever physically examining an example (I use these coins as an example because of their higher prices, making them quite exclusive and out of reach for most numismatists)?
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oriole's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2022  2:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Person X becomes an expert when well-known and and agreed upon recognized experts ask the opinion of person X. Of course, where did the first expert come from :-)?


That's a very good question: the chicken and the egg problem!

Whatever the answer, we can safely conclude that there were no numismatics experts before about 2500 years ago, when the first coins were made!
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jacrispies's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2022  8:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like the ideas presented. So the overall qualities of an expert lies more on the external perspective from the majority of the community. For example, if everyone calls Coinfrog an expert, he is an expert.


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To me, the difference between "being an expert" and "being well researched and knowledgeable" is that proven capacity to share that knowledge.

I agree, it is not what you do to share information with others (like publishing or writing a journal), but the fact in itself you are able to teach others your expertise through any medium.


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We even have a word for when somebody speaks confidently as an expert, when their actual expertise is lacking: "hubris".

I do see people overreaching their expertise and are good at lying to people in order to sound confident and professional. If I don't know something, I either will make an educated guess (if they ask) or not answer at all. I also just learned a new word, hubris. I will start using that:) Another thing is being able to admit that you are wrong. An expert should desire to expand their expertise instead of taking a stand and fighting for it no matter what. That is just basic human ignorance with a big ego anyway.


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Does being an expert in numismatics require having experience handling physical examples of particular coins?

Someone may become a generalist of numismatics, let's say US coins, without holding a capped bust half eagle. I do think that it is close to necessary to examine bust half eagles in hand to be a bust half eagle expert. How are you supposed to tell a genuine from a counterfeit? Can you accurately determine the variety consistently? If someone handed you a bust half eagle the size of a Morgan dollar, and you've never held a half eagle, you probably wouldn't think anything of the odd size. I would imagine that it could theoretically be possible for one to be an expert without touching a coin in the series in-hand, but there would be some major hurdles that would need to be overcome. Quite impossible in reality, just my opinion.
Suffering from bust half fever.
Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955
Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves.
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Sap's Avatar
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 Posted 11/07/2022  9:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Does being an expert in numismatics require having experience handling physical examples of particular coins? For example, could a person be an expert in Capped Bust Half Eagles without ever physically examining an example (I use these coins as an example because of their higher prices, making them quite exclusive and out of reach for most numismatists)?

In theory, and with great difficulty, yes, one can be "an expert" in something with very little practical exposure to that thing.

For example, I imagine that it would be possible to become an expert in baseball theory and rules, without ever watching a single game. But I would equally imagine that somebody interested enough in baseball to want to try to become such an expert, would also want to watch quite a large number of games, for no other reason than to put some of their "head knowledge" and theorizing to the test. Especially since finding a baseball game to observe isn't normally very difficult, if you know when and where to look. Likewise with coins. An "expert" in rare or unique coins will most likely want to endeavour to examine and handle in person such rarities at any and every opportunity, even if they can't afford to actually own the items themselves, because doing so can only increase and enhance their expertise.

I should point out that you do not need to actually own coins to be an "expert in coins"; professional numismatists in the history and archaeology departments at universities are very often experts in ancient and mediaeval coins who do not actually own any such coins, and indeed would consider private ownership of the coins they are experts of to be morally questionable.

There are of course many fields of human endeavour where actual hands-on experience with your field of expertise is either impossible or highly impractical. Exobiology, for example; there are no known alien life forms yet discovered, yet there are plenty of "experts" in the theory of what alien life forms might be like. Likewise, "experts in surviving a nuclear holocaust" exist, despite the distinct lack of thermonuclear warfare on Earth for them to participate in.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 11/08/2022  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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There are of course many fields of human endeavour where actual hands-on experience with your field of expertise is either impossible or highly impractical. Exobiology, for example; there are no known alien life forms yet discovered, yet there are plenty of "experts" in the theory of what alien life forms might be like. Likewise, "experts in surviving a nuclear holocaust" exist, despite the distinct lack of thermonuclear warfare on Earth for them to participate in.


I love it

Personally there are some areas in numismatics where I strive for "expert" status without the financial investment of acquiring the coins.
But this never lasts long. I would always rather have the coins.
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datadragon's Avatar
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 Posted 11/08/2022  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Check datadragon's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add datadragon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An expert in a particular field of study has selected some aspect of that field to really focus on until others turn to them for the harder to know answers within that subject matter. There is no hard rule to say someone is an expert, rather, the best sign of expertise is when other respected, recognized and established people who also participate in your field refer to you as an expert. Even within a specialty, there can be dozens of sub-specialties that you can become an expert in.

Research alone does not mean that someone is going deep, perhaps they are great at finding general answers and pointing to where answers might be found when they dont know, are helpful, or has alot of experience with the topic at hand. Learning is also ongoing and one cant generally know everything so experts also spend a portion of their time continuing to improve their knowledge base. One big mistake is to think that because you are an expert in a field or single area, you are an expert in everything.

When-Does-A-Researching-Collector-Become-An-
Edited by datadragon
11/08/2022 10:48 pm
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 11/09/2022  06:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How about ...
"when you can identify mistakes being made by other experts."
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DrDarryl's Avatar
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 Posted 11/19/2022  07:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DrDarryl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My opinion. Understanding the level of expertise will help.

Level 1 Expert - Regurgitates known general and/or specialized numismatic information previously published or shared within the collector community. (e.g., These are the facts about this series!)

Level 2 Expert - Questions the validity and/or completeness of the known general and/or specialized numismatic information previously published or shared within the collector community through documented experience with the series. (e.g., My documented experience with this series questions the validity and/or completeness of the known published or shared numismatic information within the collector community!)

Level 3 Expert - Publishes or shares previously unknown or corrects the existing numismatic information in the numismatic knowledge base for the series. (e.g., My research findings and/or documented experience with this series reveals that that Book A lacks information of these design variations as shown in the images below).
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chirrrs's Avatar
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 Posted 11/24/2022  03:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chirrrs to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the definition and threshold for expertise is relative and varies depending on specifically what types and sets of coins you are talking about. I also think this is true in sciences, and for knowledge in general. So in my opinion, an expert has considerably more knowledge than the average person familiar with the subject.

For example, lots of collectors are familiar with Mercury dimes. They're one of the most popular and well known types around. So the average expanse of knowledge on the subject is such that most coin collectors would know following in some sort of order of common familiarity:

- These dimes were minted during World War II
- They were minted 1916-45
- Being able to grade them on a scale of 4-60
- 1916D is the key date
- 1921 P/D are semi-keys
- Adolph Weinman designed them
- 1942/41 P/D are key date varieties

I would venture a guess that most here probably know all of that. That's one level of knowledge on Mercury dimes. Here's perhaps the next:

- Knowing off the top of your head the dimensions and weight
- Rough (or perhaps fairly exact) mintages for key dates
- Knowing common errors and varieties
- Being aware of FSB designations
- Being able to differentiate between 63-68 grades

Even that's not really enough knowledge to be considered an "expert" on Mercury dimes, and likely doesn't even bump you into say the top 25% when it comes to knowledge of the type just on this forum. I'm certainly not an "expert" on Mercury dimes, so I couldn't even say how you would then define the next strata of knowledge, but there are certainly members here who could do so easily. Now contrast that to something like Medieval English or French coins where just being able to read legends, identify rulers, mints, and using varieties to pin down a more specific date range probably has a much greater chance of putting you in the top 10% of knowledge on the subject on the forum, and yet that is comparatively basic knowledge when it comes to Mercury dimes.

The more specialized the subject, the smaller the knowledge pool, so the threshold for being even a "resident expert" drops considerably. I'm not sure that I'm effectively articulating my thoughts and opinion on this, but I suspect that one should get the gist of what I'm trying to convey. In some ways, this is similar to what DrDarryl just said.

In my mind the same is true in sciences. It's a lot harder to be the expert on something like chemistry or physics in general as it is to become an expert on say cleavage techniques of superconducting materials under ultra-high vacuum where the pool of knowledge is considerably smaller. Having been in academia as well as industry in sciences and engineering, I'd be careful to put too much emphasis on a requirement of publication to define expertise. Lots of names are appended to papers that have had disproportionately low contributions to their peers. Conversely, it is often the case that while the principal investigator may have their name at the top of the paper, it may have been graduate students that did the overwhelming majority if not all the work only to receive a fraction of the acknowledgement and notoriety. Additionally, lots of work is published just for the sake of publication with reciprocity between universities, donors, and the grants that are given to departments on a regular basis. I don't want to digress too much, but the point being that taking publication and its volume at face value doesn't always give a clear picture as to the merit of the work. Sometimes one landmark discovery is worth a thousand other publications! I say all of this and use the analogy of scientific research as it is something I am far more familiar with than numismatic research and I think the same ideas can be applied to numismatic expertise as well.
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