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1987 P Nickel On The Reverse Is It Doubled In The Word Cents

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Pillar of the Community

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936 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2022  10:13 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add prisbrey1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
is there doubling on the reverse of this 87 P nickel on the word cents or is it same as the last nickel a DDD and how do you know the difference between the two
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents
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merclover's Avatar
United States
10635 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2022  10:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe this issue to be Machine Doubling on your reverse. But, could be DDD.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 11/14/2022  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
it does have the thickness of a doubled die, but I think on such a beat up coin that's circulation flattening, plus some Machine Doubling
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 11/14/2022  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add prisbrey1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks and how do you the difference between the two
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 11/14/2022  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
first you assume it's not a doubled die, then you look for evidence that it is, and real double dies have the devices duplicatred rather than squashed or smeared
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Coinfrog's Avatar
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94367 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2022  08:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Use the Search box above to find many past threads on how to distinguish between the different types of doubling, with many pics.
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 11/15/2022  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add prisbrey1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ok thank I will go do it after I post to ask a question about a cent
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coop's Avatar
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62064 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2022  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just extreme die wear. DDD didn't happen till later on on the nickels. (What date? I'm not sure, but there were some 2004 nickels that were not from the single squeeze dies)
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 Posted 11/17/2022  06:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add prisbrey1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thank and how can you tell the difference between a DDD and an mdi know from the die and the other is from the machine but how do you tell the difference on the coin itself after the fact
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coop's Avatar
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 Posted 11/17/2022  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On Cents it is a lot easier to see on the DDD. It is seen on the fields of the die that shows an extension only on the fields at first. The Cent DDD is seen in 4 stages that I can tell so far. But on your nickel, it is too early to be DDD.
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents

The Single squeeze dies all have the same lower profile on the bust/design devices.
Thus on Stage 1 the die wear is first seen on the fields, and not on the devices.
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents

As it progresses, Stage 2 Ridge Ring is seen on the motto area and Liberty areas of the cent design.
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents

When on Stage 3 when Ridge Ring is polished off, then the devices weaken and almost disappear.
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents

On the 4th stage the open fields above the Liberty is affected.

1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents

Nickels seen to be different. So far I'm not seeing the differences like the Cent dies are showing. But the location of the Doubled dies are different on the two different types of die creation. On the older dies, the they are located more often on the outer devices and on the eye on cents. On the single squeeze dies, they show the hub doubling on the central areas of the designs. Also more of a distorted device appearance, rather than spread. On the single squeeze dies, they are only hubbed once. (Class 9 Doubled dies) Thus the alignment is starts, but moves as the pressure increases. Thus distorting the center of the design most of the time. (I have a personal theory on why this happens. I feel the blanks highest point is the cause. If moves into position, then moves into correct position altering just the devices on the center area of the newly created die. The higher point, being the center of the blank.
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents
I feel if they removed the point on the blank, then this would not happen. The slightest movement of the hub alters the devices on the center of the normal design. Thus the devices are distorted:
1987-P-Nickel-On-The-Reverse-Is-It-Doubled-In-The-Word-Cents
But that is what I feel is the cause of the single squeeze doubled dies. (Because if affects the central areas of the dies)

CoopHome: What is DDD on the single squeeze dies? What could be the cause of doubled dies on the single squeeze process?
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 11/17/2022  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add prisbrey1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
so on the single squeeze double die those outlines of the devices are they on every double die and back on the Die Deterioration I didnt know thats what a Ridge Ring is caused from at least as I can remember I do have a short term memory loss I can remember when I was a kid but I cant remember yesterday lol
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