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 Replies: 24 / Views: 4,079 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
It looks Bishopric, does it say 1379? Thanks if anyone can identify. It is roughly 1cm in diameter, measuring it against other coins in the photo.  Edited by TobyJ
11/29/2022 12:59 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
24923 Posts |
Hi Toby, any chance that you could post a larger image of each side (separately)? Google reverse image search couldn't pick up on any details.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
That's the largest unfortunately, but I can post better photos when it arrives.
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Pillar of the Community
 Sweden
2124 Posts |
Haven't found the exact coin, but deciphering the inscriptions gives a lot of information: CH*B*D*S*V*TRANS - Christophorus Bátory De Somlyo Vajvoda Transsylvanus - Christoph Bátory de Somlyo, Duke of Transylvania. Christoph Bátory was duke 1576-81, so the date is 1579. PATRON  VNGARIE - Patroness of Hungary. The Patrona Hungarie motif, Virgin Mary as patroness of Hungary, appears on Hungarian (and Transylvanian) coins from the time. The coin looks a bit odd, maybe a bit too "nice" and even - a modern reproduction? Better pictures when you have it in hand would be useful. Edited by erafjel
11/29/2022 5:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
erafjel, many thanks for that reply. You are surely correct, although I can only seem to find gold coins from the time of Christopher Batory. I don't think it's a fake as it has come from a reputable auction house and I've bought with them a number of times, and had coins from similar ages that have been authenticated, but of course it could be. When I receive it, I'll take some better photos. Maybe someone has a coin catalogue for pre 1600? Mine are all 1600 onwards.
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
2124 Posts |
Could be just the somewhat blurry photo that makes me a bit reluctant.
A square coin would typically be some sort of emergency issue, but I'm not sure what the emergency would be in this case. Let's see if someone more knowledgeable about this place and period has some input.
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
2124 Posts |
I found a reference to a gold coin, a ducat, that matches the obverse and reverse of that square coin. It is in a Romanian publication, an annual report on archeological finds, Materiale si cercetari arheologice, A XVII-A sesiune anuala de rapoarte, Ploiesti, 1983, (Partea a II -a), with an article about burial finds in Galati in eastern Romania. Excerpt below, with relevant text in blue.  It says (with a little help from Google Translate) that the obverse has a shield with the "Báthory shield" in the middle (and I think I can see that on your coin, the Báthory coat of arms is three claws) and the text C.N.B.D.S.V. TRANS 1576. "C.N" can very well be a misreading of "CH". And the year is different of course. The reverse shows a seated Madonna and the Sibiu coat of arms (the coat of arms of the Transylvanian town Sibiu would be two crossed swords; cannot make that out on your coin, it might be just a tiny one somewhere). Unfortunately there are no pictures of the coin and I have not been able to find any other references to such a ducat, so it is probably rather unusual. Edited by erafjel
11/30/2022 1:21 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1313 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
Received the coin, very small indeed, only 10.5mm in diameter. Here are some photos.   |
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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
2124 Posts |
Those photos are much better and the coin looks much more genuine in those  . Can't help any more with attribution though. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7933 Posts |
Also found this, with no catalog attribution again: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1424101Interesting that the Macho Chlapovic auction listing suggests they have seen other examples in worse condition (and that they list it as a RUdolph II issue). Edit: With some further reflection ... We see four examples of a coin that I think would have been hammered. All look to have nearly the same strike detail, wear and patination. VERY suspicious. Edited by tdziemia
12/11/2022 3:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
Thanks for the replies, I do see variance between all the examples found thus far. I'm going to take my chances and send it to NGC to see what they think.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7933 Posts |
 Please update us when you get the result. Fingers crossed!. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
HIGHLY suspect surfaces on these pieces (a search shows a few on Worthpoint and a Numista forum thread in addition to this piece plus the two auction appearances noted above).
Also seemingly no solid attribution... it WANTS to be a klippe denar, yet no concrete references to such a coin.
I suspect this is a modern fantasy.
Edited by realeswatcher
12/30/2022 04:31 am
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Moderator
United States
34393 Posts |
@tob, thx for posting this interesting pickup. If you haven't already sent it on its way for potential slabbing, could you please check the edge to confirm that there isn't a parting line or evidence of filing? Thx.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
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Replies: 24 / Views: 4,079 |
Posted 11/29/2022 1:41 pm
