How Would You Grade This 1787(Bust Right) Vermont Copper? - I Think, Not An Easy One.

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 1,171
GERMANICVS Pillar of the Community Germany 1849 Posts	Posted 01/02/2023 04:43 am I first posted this coin back in 2013. I've managed to take some better pictures and would like to submit this one for your grading considerations. It should be an interesting one to grade. It is an RR-14 variety. The planchet is smooth and a pleasing medium brown in color. The first set of pictures are from the coin in question. The last 3 pictures are from the Heritage Auction Archives for AU50, XF40 and VF35 coins respectively (same variety, RR-14). I have included these to serve as comparison. Thanks ! Report this Post to the Staff

IndianGoldEagle Bedrock of the Community United States 36643 Posts	Posted 01/02/2023 09:17 am I see yours at AU-50. Report this Post to the Staff
Coinfrog Bedrock of the Community United States 94367 Posts	Posted 01/02/2023 09:40 am Er, um, I see yours as VF-20. Report this Post to the Staff
CarrsCoins Pillar of the Community United States 756 Posts	Posted 01/02/2023 10:27 am hmmm. this a tough one without having it in hand. the best struck of your examples is the VF. it has quite a bit more detail than the AU. strike inconsistency like that is one of the hardest things to grade from photos. on your coin I see what looks like a decent amount of wear on both sides. most notable on the central devices. I dont think youve lost any significant detail but it does look like the high points have been flattened. im going to call this XF40. I'm not confident. Report this Post to the Staff
westcoin Pillar of the Community United States 9792 Posts	Posted 01/02/2023 4:20 pm I'm in at EF40 minimum up to an AU50+ grade. I don't think the TPG's can accurately grade Vermont coppers at all. I don't place any weight on their call, I put more trust in guys like Dave Bowers, John Kraljevich, Kevin Vinton, and Vicken Yegparian of Stack's/Bowers or Mark Borckardt, Jim Stoutjesdyk, and Mark Feld at Heritage Auctions, also Chris McCawley of Earlycents.com those guys know their colonials and early US coins. The TPG's are geared much more towards the modern stuff or coins that are a dime a dozen, like Morgan/Peace dollars, Walkers, Mercury dimes, Lincoln cents, ASE, etc. Also hoping Jack Young pops in to give a guess, he is working on a top pop of Vermonts right now. Are you a member of the C4 group? If so I would recommend asking them as well, Folks like Tony Carlotto, Ray Williams, etc., might have better insight on this type of coin. If you are not a member, I'd be happy to share the coin in the private group - just asking opinions on it for you, let me know, you can reply here, or you have my personal email as well either is fine. I will be discreet of course if you would like to get outside opinions from some real colonial copper experts. All that being said, I really like this Vermont, though I haven't seen a ton of them in my time, I am studying them a lot more now days, as I save up for some to call my own. Vermont coppers are routinely struck on flawed planchet blanks and weren't struck all that well with good processes or dies either. Your example is a heck of a lot nicer than most I've seen so far in any grade. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 Edited by westcoin 01/02/2023 4:58 pm Report this Post to the Staff
panzaldi Bedrock of the Community United States 18645 Posts	Posted 01/02/2023 4:45 pm I'm going with AU53 Report this Post to the Staff
paralyse Bedrock of the Community United States 12057 Posts	Posted 01/03/2023 12:44 am Solid EF. Choice. Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Report this Post to the Staff
GERMANICVS Pillar of the Community Germany 1849 Posts	Posted 01/03/2023 11:09 am My sincere thanks for all of your opinions and comments. As I thought it would be, this Vermont pre-federal is not an easy one to grade --> how much is strike? how much is wear? In hand it is a very pretty one, with nice, smooth surfaces and tan color. I do not want to sound biased, but judging from the state of the fields alone, one would think this coin saw little circulation. The strike, specially on the central devices is quite weak, however. Chriss, since I am not a member of C4, I very thankfully accept your offer to have the C4 group take a look at this coin. Thank you! Once again, thank you all for your comments. Report this Post to the Staff
psuman08 Pillar of the Community United States 1760 Posts	Posted 01/03/2023 11:31 am Nice Vermont on what looks to be a nice planchet. Looks every bit the part of a high EF if not AU. To me it is certainly nicer than the ha.com AU. Report this Post to the Staff
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