Starting To Try To Understand On How Dies Work With Coins

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Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 1,140
MetalEarth Valued Member United States 109 Posts	Posted 02/27/2023 2:50 pm I'm confused on how 1 letter of maybe 30 letters on one side of a coin will have Machine Doubling but nothing else does? It seems a lot of moving parts are in play, but so far I'm not seeing the answer and my google attempts are failing me. Anyone help. Hope everyone is well. * Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. * Report this Post to the Staff

John1 Moderator United States 56855 Posts	Posted 02/27/2023 3:09 pm http://www.error-ref.com/ John1 Report this Post to the Staff
datadragon Pillar of the Community United States 1648 Posts	Posted 02/27/2023 3:15 pm mechanical doubling, Machine Doubling. This common error goes by many names, but it's all the same thing. This type of doubling, which is also known as strike, ejection, shelf or shift doubling, is not the result of the design on the die being doubled. Rather, this type of doubling occurs when the die strikes a planchet. If the die is not properly seated, it can move slightly or bounce during the moment of striking, creating a flat, shelf-like doubling. This effect will be different on all coins struck, so it is technically not a variety, but rather more of a striking error. So as to your q it will be different how it appears and not just 1 letter typically. https://www.doubleddie.com/144822.html easier: https://coins.thefuntimesguide.com/...oubled-dies/ https://www.ngccoin.com/news/articl...ne-Doubling/ On a machine doubled coin, the doubling will appear much more flattish. When lettering is involved, the doubling will appear to be smeared outward from the primary letters. Furthermore, there will be no serif separation from the primary letters. If you still get confused, you could look up the coin such as in Strike it rich with pocket change 5th edition book or doubleddie website or similar and see if a doubled die exists already for that coin to match up. Visual Reference: Edited by datadragon 02/27/2023 3:20 pm Report this Post to the Staff
coop Bedrock of the Community United States 62064 Posts	Posted 02/28/2023 12:12 pm The looseness of the machine post strike alters the devices. Often you can just see the alteration one side of the devices all across the devices the same: Even the slightest movement will alter these devices. This can happen in one or more directions on the coins, depending on how loose the machine was. If can be a close as the fields push, mid devices, top side areas and sometimes even on the tops of the devices. The machine is not regular. One coin can look altered differently than other strikes: When the machine is loose and we are looking through a microscope, it looks huge, but it is even the slightest movement, that alters these coins, post strike. It is a striking issue with the machine. Always altering the devices (damaging the devices) where as a doubled die will show an enlarging of the devices. On the MD it always reduces the devices. A doubled die can show Machine Doubling, but Machine Doubling never creates a doubled die. Why? Because the machine strikes the coin. The Doubled dies have hub doubling created on the dies. Thus the dies strike a doubled die coin. If a doubled die has Machine Doubling, it is not part of the doubled die. It is Machine Doubling on a doubled die coin. Example? Note all the dates are showing the doubled die. But note the arrows are pointing to the Machine Doubling. Thus the mintmarks should not be showing any alteration. But note these are showing the Machine Doubling on them. This is what the mintmarks will look like without the Machine Doubling: Machine Doubling is common to find on the 1968-1972 cents. But the Machine Doubling is never part of a doubled die. Most collectors prefer to have no Machine Doubling on doubled dies for their collection. It makes the hub doubling/machine doubling look confusing to show to another collector. Hope this this helps. Report this Post to the Staff
nick10 Pillar of the Community United States 3207 Posts	Posted 02/28/2023 2:30 pm and, as for why all that movement can affect only part of the coin the answer is the dies are not flat but rather slightly convex, so after the dies strike a coin and are retracting, only part of them are touching the struck coin when movement occurs, and that part is where Machine Doubling can happen Report this Post to the Staff
MetalEarth Valued Member United States 109 Posts	Posted 02/28/2023 4:34 pm Quote: and, as for why all that movement can affect only part of the coin the answer is the dies are not flat but rather slightly convex, so after the dies strike a coin and are retracting, only part of them are touching the struck coin when movement occurs, and that part is where Machine Doubling can happen Thank you for that. The thread was turning into how to tell the differences which was not the question. Not that those answers don't help the overall education, it just missed the mark. Report this Post to the Staff
dsking Pillar of the Community United States 2365 Posts	Posted 02/28/2023 5:01 pm Quote: If the die is not properly seated, it can move slightly or bounce during the moment of striking, creating a flat, shelf-like doubling. Perhaps if you think of pressure or uneven pressure you might get it. Just a guess. Good question! Report this Post to the Staff
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