| Author |
 Replies: 15 / Views: 659 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
I am currently searching thru 2 uncirculated rolls of these coins. Wexler lists about 64 DDO CC lists 1 DDO VV lists 63. Why the descepency of the numbers with CC? With the listings for Wexler & VV, could one not expect to find at least one uncirculated example from Wexler and Vv? With the subtle things to look for, this may take my rookie eye awhile. Then on to 2 rolls of uncirculated P's. I also have 1 roll of 1st day of issue, 12 Feb 2009 from the mint ceremony in Hodgenville, KY. in a nickel tube. A fellow member suggested not to break this roll and I will heed that advice. I picked these 5 rolls up for $6 on an online auction. Which offsets what I paid for the 1922 D VAM-2N Peace dollar that comes in around AU-55/58, and the 1935 Peace dollar I won sold as a MS-63. Besides being a pre 2010 Lincoln freak, I am also a Peace freak. One mint state 2009 cent with a DDR could make my overbids on the dollars a little less painful. Anyone interested in owing that VAM-2N? Will trade for 90%. I am not a collector,but a stacker. I think I could yield more ounces for it and the 35. The VAM-2N and the 35 are posted in the classic grading forum. Hope for some answers to my questions. I have learned alot here. I do however collect Lincoln varieties & errors so I guess I am a collector as well. . Edited by Dowhat
03/08/2023 5:15 pm
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
8760 Posts |
|
|
Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
CC stopped taking submissions for a long time. John1  |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Why are attribution numbers not matching up?Well you need to know the story behind this issue? The sites attribute the coins often when they come in. So the first doubled die, will be die # 001 So when this happens there will be not a match between the sites. Each site will have their own numbers.  Note the descriptions are different on each site. Thus you have to identify them or in some cases, some sites will help with the matching numbers, others do not. So when You post a number and we see date/mint:DDO-XXX that is usually a Variety Vista number. If we see date/mint:WDDO-XXX Then that is a Wexler number. and Coppercoins date/mint: 1(Denomination)DO (variety) XXX Die Number. So using their formula, then we know what site you are mentioning. Any blend between them makes if confusing. Facts:Coppercoins used the RPM numbers from the orange book that some of Variety Vistas numbers:  They used these numbers first in this book, then added more numbers to their site as new dies came in. (OR reserved spaces for there own personal add on numbers) John Wexler was with CONECA for many years and went his own way for his own site. So he had many premium numbers that were listed on the Variety Vista site. But he started off his listings with the strongest previous listing first. Then continued on with the new add on ones later on. (Not sure what year this happened though) So the sites are not showing the same numbers on many dies. So they have to be checked to see if there are other matches. Coppercoins and Wexler's site shows these numbers if they have that information. But after they start, they continue to add on to listed new ones they have attributed. Thus why the numbers are different. Hope this helps? CoopHome: What do the sites have different die numbers on their attributed dies? because they are not link together and list their dies as they are chosen.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3535 Posts |
Appreciate your post COOP! There is so much to learn about this, and I've been learning!
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
877 Posts |
Thanks for that explanation explanation Coop. I understand each sites different listing numbers. I was referring to Wexler and VV both having more than 60 listings compared to CC having only ones for this date, MM, and reverse (EC).
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Well looking at Wexler's site, he mentions the issue with the Master die and working hub issues that created many dies with the same doubling. When this happens they are not a die variety, as they become common. Easy to find. If a large percentage of these coins have this, it is common. It is when just one die that is affected, that makes them valuable. Thus the pull off on those examples. They were listed (and some sites do still list them) but they are common. Sometimes even this hub doubling can still be mixed with a different hub and then they are listed. (Because only one die is affected that way)
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
I get that Coop. From my observations of these examples, there definitely appears to be master hub doubling on every one of them, yet restricted to the obverse die.
Some exibit differences one the reverse, not the repetition of the obverse examples.
Somewhere I missed Wexlers mention of the obverse master hud doubling which seems to me quite evident. Especially in LIBERTY. At least 95% of obverse show this but non repetitive on the reverse.
Can you please provide the link to Wexlers mention of the master hub doubling. I have started a thread on this topic and saved in my drafts waiting to submit after I create the images.
But your link to this reference may same me the trouble of completing that draft for submission here.
Appreciate your feedback, as always.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
If you want to understand more go read this web page (I will not go in details): https://www.doubleddie.com/1801.htmlAfter 1988 was like three different identities. CC it is a great site, Wex also. VV it is more commercial and due to many intervenient it has some (many) errors. All three sites are a great source for collecting, but never 100% accurate (human are humans). How works? : Simply: what they receive they will attribute and then they posted. In your case the CC do not post to many cause was Master Die or Hub Doubling, so no DDO or DDR. Edited by silviosi
03/09/2023 7:05 pm
|
|
Valued Member
United States
366 Posts |
@john1 how did you get 49,088 posts?
|
|
Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
By talking too much   John1 |
|
Valued Member
United States
366 Posts |
 I jest. |
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
Quote:
By talking too much  Poor his wife, hope not same punishment's as me for this " Sleep on balcony! LOL" |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
877 Posts |
So, let me get this straight.
First try to understand my terminology here. Does varieties of errors make any sense here when used in the following context?
VV lists about 63 reverse varieties of errors.
Wexlers lists about 64 varieties of reverse errors.
CC lists one reverse "error".
Should varieties of errors be stated as
" differnt" errors or "varieties" of errors? Or does the terminology not the same? Except when discussing numismatic terms?
I would like to see the reference to master hub doubling as mentioned earlier that exists which has not been referenced yet as requested.
It would save me alot of time looking thru 100 coins that 2 major references tell me there are over 60 "different types" of this coin.
Then I can just put them in a tube and say "yeah " I got 2 two tubes of uncirculated 2009 D EC cents that are worth more than it cost to make them.
That being the case, I won't even bother with the 2 rolls of 2009 P's as they are more than likely to be erroneously listed as errors when this is actually master hub doubling on both the obverse and reverse.
I conclude that the Formative Years reverse errors fall into the same category and would be a waste of my time to compare to attributed examples.
Just looking for logical explanations from all of you in the know. I have much to learn, yet a little confused now. Thanks for your time.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
@ DowhatTo be clear with you, and understand this history. I gives you a link to read the CV of Wexler. So in 1988 he come back to this hobby. Him try to have back the right to made his own database from CONECA/VV to show, NOT MORE. They refuse him and so him start from scratch. Willis the owner of VV do not think that JR (Stanton), Favas, Herbs, Ken, Will, Brewers, Brian, me and my collector group we will help him, and many others. Like this him rebuild the database as was and day by day was add new thinks. Now to the listed coins: If you take all those, you has same except one in Wex because VV never has. Different No. but same. CC stop to post for own reason, maybe because are minor one 1964). If you go to TPG's is different. PCGS recognize only FS denomination and sorry JR (Stanton) and Favaz are not anymore with us. NCG and ANACS will recognize the both Wex and Coneca and never say VV. So in conclusion we go how it is. We need another Favaz and Stanton? YES. Hope help you and others, I can wrote more about but I think it is enough for moment. Edited by silviosi
03/09/2023 10:38 pm
|
|
Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
Varieties of errors would not be the way I would say that. Errors and varieties are two differant things. A better way to say it would be types of errors or types of variestie,by the way there are 9 classes of doubled dies and many types of doubling as well https://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles...Doubling.htmJohn1 Edited by John1
03/10/2023 05:57 am
|
| |
Replies: 15 / Views: 659 |
|
Posted 03/09/2023 08:11 am
