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US Classic Gold Coins, What Is Being Called Prooflike Now?

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Pillar of the Community

Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 07/10/2023  9:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jecz79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
A while ago I was talking here about a $20 1904 liberty. Whether it could be a proof like coin came up.

I am used to calling proof to coins with frosted reliefs, not minding very much the fields.

But recently I noticed that proof like for US classics seems to be about the fields. How polished the die was, how reflective the fields are? Is that the sole criteria?

If so is this something recent, or was always so?
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smokeriderdon's Avatar
United States
3755 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2023  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Proof LIKE is the term for regular circulation strike coins that have reflective fields. Yes, the devices tend to have an amount of frostiness to them, but the designation is based on what the graders can see reflected in the fields. If memory serves, if you can clearly read text that is an inch or more away, its PL. I could be totally off on that though. Old man brain.The DMPL (Deep Mirror Proof Like) designation is for coins that have extremely reflective fields, pretty much on par with actual proofs.

The coins that are like this come from the first bunch of strikes from a well prepared die. Unlike actual proofs, the dies arent polished to the point that proof dies are and the planchets arent prepared the same either. Its simply happenstance that some of the first coins off of some dies happen to get that look.
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4468 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2023  2:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If memory serves, if you can clearly read text that is an inch or more away, its PL.


PCGS and NGC standards are 2" to 4" of mirror clarity for prooflike.

PCGS DMPL is 6" or more of mirror clarity.
NGC DPL is 4" or more of mirror clarity.
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Slider23's Avatar
United States
4468 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2023  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But recently I noticed that proof like for US classics seems to be about the fields. How polished the die was, how reflective the fields are? Is that the sole criteria?
If so is this something recent, or was always so?


The standards have changed over the years. For example, PCGS started grading non Morgan Prooflike MS coins in 2019. On prooflike it is about the mirror fields. On prooflike PCGS or NGC does not use any terms like contrast or frosty to define the standard.

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Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2023  8:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jecz79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you. The odd thing to me was that proof like for where I am from requires frosted reliefs. How they happened is the same process. New dies when well prepared and new produced those better coins. They were also part of normal production.
But people here only value as proof-like those of the first coins that have frosted reliefs.

I like the old US coins more when they have a frosted look, even in the fields. Or tiny flow lines that make them uneven and scatter light. It is perhaps because I am used to look for that

Some months ago I found this 1904 $20 very attractive because of that light scattering effect, got it because of that look.
US-Classic-Gold-Coins,-What-Is-Being-Called-Prooflike-Now?

But if I am understanding right, then what I think is a less pretty coin, that is flatter, reflective, is more appreciated?

This was my 'bad' 1904, it reflects a bit, I took some photos now trying to show it:
US-Classic-Gold-Coins,-What-Is-Being-Called-Prooflike-Now?
US-Classic-Gold-Coins,-What-Is-Being-Called-Prooflike-Now?
US-Classic-Gold-Coins,-What-Is-Being-Called-Prooflike-Now?

I see that it falls off with distance, as you say. But I never found this coin much appealing, because it lacked the frosty-ness. The mirror-likeness is uneven, degrades near the rim. It was just well preserved, that was all that moved me to keep it.

Those prooflike are perhaps supposed to be more reflective, almost like a modern proof ?


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