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 Replies: 26 / Views: 2,548 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
975 Posts |
I have been looking at my other proof Kennedy halves, in particular the ones I have with the type 2 obverse paired with the type 1 reverse. "Transitional". Do any of your transitional halves have the lathe lines on the reverse like the ones with the Accented hair? The transitional ones that I have look to have polishing lines. So I was wondering how and why the lathe lines were created initially and if they were polished out or what happened. Or if they exist on some of the transitional Kennedys. None of mine seem to possess them. Thanks in advance!! (I posted some pics of the type 1 reverse Acc hair with them below for reference.)    Edited by gsp193
08/06/2023 08:43 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
975 Posts |
I found a non accented hair with the type 1 reverse straight G which has the lathe lines so that answers my question.
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Moderator
 United States
95088 Posts |
I would tend to think that lathes lines are created when there is an improper setup when creating a die.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
975 Posts |
@Dearborn Thanks! Yes that makes sense. I just thought it was odd that all the accented hair Kennedy's have the lathe lines regardless of DDO DDR or non doubled dies. So I figured the lathe lines should be on all type one reverses with type 2 obverse as well but they are not. Was just curious. Took awhile but I found one today so I guess the answer is all the accented hair and some type 1 reverses. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
@ gsp193, WOW you use big term for an 1964 halve. The 1965 Kennedy was absolute same design as 1964. So was never an transitional halve in that year. The accentuate hair is count of about 15% of production till Jacky Kennedy change. The 1965 use same design as 1964 with no variation or variety of design.
An transitional coins is a coin which use the following year Design in the early year. Also if the material change in following year and is use on precedent year will be transitional. Is your coin an Silver clad?
Hope this clear your vocabulary confusions.
Edited by silviosi
09/01/2023 11:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
975 Posts |
Thanks @silviosi. By transitional I meant the change from Accented hair to the type 2 obverse, which some still had the type one reverses with the broken rays and straight G. The ones I am talking about are 90 percent silver proofs. I called them transitional because that is what Dr Wiles calls them in Kennedy half dollar Book attribution guide. He actually calls them Transitional Varieties.   Edited by gsp193
09/02/2023 6:53 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
449 Posts |
@gsp193 I have at least 7 1964 proof sets with this variety of Kennedy (not AH obverse but RDV-001 reverse), and none of them have the lathe lines, whereas the AHKs I have in sets do have them.
I would think the one you have with the RDV-001 and lathe lines but not the AH obverse is pretty rare.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
975 Posts |
Thanks @Cointree! I appreciate it! I have not seen any with the lines except the one I just found and was surprised to see them! I had to triple take to make sure it was not an accented hair!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
@gsp193 What you have it is an interesting variety. Wiles wrote a lot and go with his own thinking and do not accept his errors. VV is full of errors, his presentations also. So you can not go by only one person point of view.
What you have it is a variety of the same year and not an transitional coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
975 Posts |
@silviosi The type 1 obverse was completely done away with and the type 2 obverse transitioned into it's place.
What is another word for transition?
Synonyms of transition (noun change, often major)
changeover.
conversion.
development.
evolution.
growth.
passage.
progress.
progression.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
975 Posts |
One more question...I was looking at the 64 SMS Kennedys on PCGS Coinfacts. They also look to have the reverse lathe lines. Has anyone ever noticed them that has seen an actual SMS 64 Kennedy? Thanks in advance. https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin...50c-sms/6844 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
6244 Posts |
The very few SMS 1964 issue from an proof die. So it is possible that the die has lathe.
In coins collection the transition mean : Use of the next year design early. GSP you play with the meaning of the words to achieve what you want. I am not in this game.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
975 Posts |
@silviosi no game I was just saying I believe the context in Dr Wiles book meant that it was changed, which it was. I actually am not wanting anything I merely asked a question because I am curious about the lines. Nothing to gain and want nothing so not sure what you mean. But not arguing over a question and was not trying to offend. Thanks for your response anyway.
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Valued Member
United States
449 Posts |
@gsp193 What @silviosi is saying is that the word "transitional" in coin collecting is generally understood to mean something in the design that crosses over years. However, when I looked at the Coin Community glossary itself (this site), it appears to support what you are saying: Quote:transitional issue A coin struck after a series ends, such as the 1866 No Motto issues. A coin struck before a series starts, such as the 1865 Motto issues. A coin struck with either the obverse or the reverse of a discontinued series, an example being the 1860 Half Dime With Stars. A coin struck with the obverse or reverse of a yet-to-be-issued series, an example being the 1859 Stars Half Dime with the Legend-type reverse. I also learned of this type of 1964 proof Kennedy as being a "transitional variety" when I first discovered it probably 20 years ago or so. However, I understand @silviosi's point that "transitional" normally refers to designs that cross years. Maybe it doesn't have to cross years? Or just was meant for another year? If RDV-001 was used in 1965 then I guess it does fit in with crossing years. Kind of confusing, but it is an interesting discussion! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
975 Posts |
Thanks for the info @Cointree, it is confusing. I do get what Silviosi is saying as well. I was just trying to show that transition just meant change, was not trying to start a cointalk rumble haha. In this instance I think calling it transitional makes sense, since it went from ODV-001 RDV-001 to ODV-002 RDV-001 to ODV-002 RDV-002. So being in the middle makes sense to me being called a transitional variety since the next change was the permanent one for the year. I don't think RDV-001 was used again, not sure though. I am thinking about these lathe lines in the sense of a Morgan/Peace Dollar Vam- Fingerprint of the reverse die on certain Kennedy halves. It just interested me that they showed up on the devices of the AHK's so I thought I would start looking and ask. I appreciate your response! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Quote:
However, I understand @silviosi's point that "transitional" normally refers to designs that cross years. Maybe it doesn't have to cross years? No, it doesn't have to cross years. There is a Barber obverse quarter type that only exists in 1900. |
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Replies: 26 / Views: 2,548 |
Posted 08/31/2023 6:50 pm
Uncirculated American Silver Eagles 
