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 Replies: 6 / Views: 642 |
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
Hello everyone, I am looking to trade with another collector here in Rome. He and I have done a lot of buying and selling and trading together. This is one of the coins up for trade. These are fascinating, confusing, frustrating, and very interesting to me. I'm curious to hear some thoughts and opinions. He's sending pics of the reverse later. Thank you!   Added reverse ...  Edited by Roma2021
08/26/2023 3:46 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
PCGS does a good primer on the California fractional gold issues. https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/cate...52-1882/1659Ron Guth: BG-111 is a Liberty Head Octagonal 1/4 Dollar issued by Antoine Louis Nouizillet of San Francisco. Though dated 1856, they may have been made as late as 1858 and possibly even 1860). Breen-Gillio classed them as Rarity 3 (Scarce) but that all changed with the discovery of the wreck of the S.S. Central America in 1988. Four BG-111's were found in the first salvage of the ship and an even larger large quanitity was found in the second salvage operation (at least 14 of which were graded Prooflike by PCGS). As a result, BG-111 is now one of the most common varieties of the Period One 1/4 Dollars. IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
 Italy
1130 Posts |
Thanks @numismatic student. I saw that and pcgs does a great job on these.
Were these minted in Philadelphia as the pcgs page states? I also read that they early pre 1858 may (or may not) have circulated ... That's the confusing and interesting part. Still... 500 known doesn't seem bad.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Numismatic Student covered pretty much everything.
I'll just add a couple more things:
- There is a great deal of uncertainty as to when much of the fractional gold coinage was actually struck. Due to poor or non-existent contemporary records, a coin dated "1856" or "1874" or any other date may have been struck in that year, 5 years later, or 30 years later. There are numismatic and other sources from the early 20th century that would seem to indicate that copies of these issues dated 1852, e.g. were being sold in jewelry stores on the West Coast at that time, some 50-60 years after the date on the coin. There is also confusion as to when, and for how long, these issues would have actually circulated; and how many were made as souvenirs or commemoratives to sell to tourists and local residents/workers, especially after the Mint was founded.
- Prior to the establishment of the San Francisco Mint in 1854, California gold was being assayed, refined, and struck by the Mormons or by several other different private assayers; and by the US Assay Office from 1852-1853. The founding of the Mint in that year reduced the need for the private issue of fractional gold tokens/coins after the Civil War, not as much by striking gold coins, but more so by striking silver coins.
- Most graded examples that I see are AU or MS. I don't recall seeing many at all below XF-AU, suggesting that if they did circulate, it wasn't for long enough to impart much actual wear to the coins.
- Quality is also a mixed bag. Some of the issues feature nearly identical copies of the US Liberty Head / wreath reverse designs shared with contemporary US gold coinage; others look like they were engraved by a toddler using a sharp stick and a clay tablet. Ragged edges, clipped planchets, pitting, and missing/incomplete areas of the coin due to die defects are common, but you can also find fully-struck, well-centered coins with prooflike surfaces that rival their US mint counterparts. Quite a few coins have holes drilled into them.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
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Replies: 6 / Views: 642 |
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Posted 08/26/2023 10:45 am
