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Experts On Tibet Called To Action!

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1911 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2024  6:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I understand the lion facing up or backwards.
And I understand the dots or no dots in the angles and arabesques among the 1 Sho coinage. And I understand that variations exist.
So my inquiry regards the very top of the inner circle above the lion and ask:
Is there any specific explanation as to why this part of the coin is so different?
And what these characters represent?
I don't have the Wolfgang Bertsch book so I don't know if this subject is covered.
I see what looks like two or three open end wrenches with a dot / no dot or a star or oddity or uncertainty among them.

Experts-On-Tibet-Called-To-Action!
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34393 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2024  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not an expert, but I'll offer an opinion and will be happy to be gently corrected by someone more knowledgeable than I am.

I'm seeing the term "ornaments" or "scroll ornaments" in most of the English-language auctions featuring this design. However, with the long tails seemingly indicating motion, I had always assumed for my pieces that those were birds in flight above the snow lion.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
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"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2024  10:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is there any specific explanation as to why this part of the coin is so different?

For the same reason that ancient and mediaeval coins can look "so different", despite being the same basic type:

The dies for these coins were handmade, and the coins themselves struck the old-fashioned way, without machinery. You're going to get considerable variation making coins this way.

Quote:
And what these characters represent?

I would assume they are linked to Tibetan national symbolism that can be seen elsewhere - such as on the flag. The snow lion is unquestionably featured on both the coin and the flag, so it's reasonable to seek guidance from the flag for other features on the coin.

On the flag of Tibet, there's an object described as a "three-coloured jewel". This is said to symbolize the three core aspects of Buddhism: Buddha (the source of teaching), Dharma (the cosmic law at the foundation of the teaching) and Sangha (monastic community).

The central object appears sun-like or star-like; I would assume it analogous to the sun on the flag, which is said to represent "the equal enjoyment of freedom, spiritual and material happiness and prosperity by all beings in Tibet".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
1911 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2024  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As far as catalog numbers go, I suppose those items stated in the OP regarding the lion & dots would describe the major differences along with the vertical or horizontal reverse legends as well.
So bottom line here with these minor variations with the symbols above the lion really don't amount to much as far as unique catalog numbers?
I'm presently making album pages with photos and text of assorted of Tibetan coins so I thank you for the informative replies.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2024  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There probably would be a specialist "Tibetan coins" catalogue that lists all the known varieties, or at least the major ones (as defined by whoever wrote the book). But this doesn't appear to be the focus of whoever contributed the variety data to Krause.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
United States
1911 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2024  01:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Albert to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think this can wrap up the topic so thank you for the replies.
I have an assortment of coins described as Y21a, 21.1a, 21.2 and 21.1 but some features on the coins don't fit the seller's descriptions.
I do acknowledge finding older posts regarding the lion and obverse & reverse dots. Those were helpful.
I can proceed now with documenting the 31 different Tibetan coins from a recent purchase.
At first glance, it was obvious I needed help to understand what I was looking at with coins in hand.
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