Byantine Billon Aspron Trachy Of Manuel I (1143-1180 Ad): Why Is Mary So Short?

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Author	Replies: 6 / Views: 495
Spence Moderator United States 34402 Posts	Posted 04/25/2024 9:02 pm I was looking at my Billon Aspron Trachys a couple days ago and started to go down a bit of a rabbit hole with regard to the variety. In Sear BC&V, these are all classified as #1966, but are split into 11 or so varieties in Dumbarton Oaks Catalog of Byzantine Coins. These same varieties are duplicated on the RIC page, and seem to focus on small differences in the clothing worn by the Emperor, such as the number and orientation of jewels. All this I'm understanding pretty well. Where I'm running into a bit of a challenge is that one of my Trachys very distinctly has Mary shorter than the Emperor. This seems unusual as it isn't mentioned (nor pictured) in any of the three references that I have access to. It could just be a die-makers mistake, but it seems presumptuous to juxtapose their heights in this way and force Mary up on her tiptoes to place the crown on Manuel I's head. These coins are very common--especially worn examples--and there are a couple hundred examples of S-1966 Trachys on acsearch that I could search through for similar examples, but thought that I'd see if anyone here on CCF has noticed this previously. I also note that they have been posted on CCF before--here are links to a couple threads. Another possibility of course is that I have mis-attributed this coin. http://goccf.com/t/100210 http://goccf.com/t/162072 Below are two sample reverses, one with a normally-sized Mary (on the right) that is roughly equivalent in height as Manuel I and then other where she is significantly shorter: Please weigh in with your knowledge and theories! Thx. "If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb "The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz Report this Post to the Staff

Tanman2001 Pillar of the Community United States 4398 Posts	Posted 04/25/2024 9:11 pm I think this is just a striking issue. If I'm not mistaken, these were made in two strikes. Left side then right, or vice versa. The coin just shifted between the two strikes. Report this Post to the Staff
Spence Moderator United States 34402 Posts	Posted 04/26/2024 07:19 am Hmm that is an interesting thought @tan. It seems like if there was a dramatic shift on the rev, then there should be a corresponding shift on the obv, right? I'm not really seeing that, although the circulation wear might be masking it. There is a bit of an offset between the XC and IC--maybe that is evidence of a shift during the striking process? "If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb "The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7940 Posts	Posted 04/26/2024 12:51 pm Maybe just die variation ... Put "Byzant 1966" into acsearch, and you get over 250 hits on this broad type. Scrolling through them quickly, I would say there about equal numbers of examples with Mary slightly taller, about the same height, and slightly shorter. Report this Post to the Staff
Tanman2001 Pillar of the Community United States 4398 Posts	Posted 04/26/2024 7:29 pm Yeah that side has a large shift as well. It's definitely noticeable when looking at elements that should be in-line like IC XC and the armrests of the throne. Report this Post to the Staff
Spence Moderator United States 34402 Posts	Posted 04/26/2024 8:57 pm Great explanation as always @tan--that definitely helps. And @tdz, I had thought about doing something like that but got lazy in the end and thought I'd just see what the folks here would come up with. "If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb "The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz Report this Post to the Staff
tdziemia Pillar of the Community United States 7940 Posts	Posted 04/27/2024 11:34 am Here she is the same height (OK, maybe her halo makes her a tad taller): http://goccf.com/t/464154 Report this Post to the Staff
	Replies: 6 / Views: 495

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

All Forums Category: World Coins and Currency Forums Forum: Ancient, Greek, Roman, and Medieval Coins

The First Dollar, your premier source for bullion and rare coins. See our bullion list on the site and the coin inventory on ebay.

Silver Gold Bull US is the United States leading bullion dealer. We deliver gold coins, gold bars, silver coins, silver bars and precious metals to your door. Order today!

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us | Advertise Here | Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum

It took 0.26 seconds to rattle this change.