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 Replies: 15 / Views: 820 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1780 Posts |
...a current ebay offering from a seemingly honest seller. I contacted him questioning it's authenticity (seems cast, not hand struck to me...), & got this reply: "... Sorry about that. It is not cast. I just used an old posting from another dealer. I am a member of the fort worth coin club and we have the governments top guy on counterfeit coins and he has confirmed that it is real. Thanks for letting me know and I will update the posting ..." ...... ebay item number: 204913190005 .... ...I'm not convinced ... any thoughts or observations are appreciated  |
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Moderator
 United States
34397 Posts |
Any chance the seller can send you an edge shot (which you could post here)?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1780 Posts |
...I'll contact & see...
...sent the following @ 9:26 CST ..." Hello ...is there any chance of getting some clear shots of this coin's edge (see pic attached) ... the pictures you have posted makes the edge appear as if the item was cast in a mold. also, the correct weight for this coin is 3.4 grams ... do you have a weight for this item? ... thank you for any info ... "
Edited by mrwiskers
07/31/2024 10:28 am
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Moderator
United States
188130 Posts |
Very interesting.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Kind of suspicious. Overall it looks much too crude compared to real examples. It could be a shipwreck effect but it could also be cast. It reminds me more of the cast copies sold as "pirate coins" or "pirate treasure." I'd pass on it unless it ends up being some rare type, since there are many more examples available with fewer questions about their authenticity.
Looks like Toledo mint (five dots in a cross / T flanking shield) allegedly
Reverse legend is REX:ET:REGINA:CAST:LEGIO A:S:G:* (cannot find a match among Toledo mint coins e.g. Cal.411, but I don't have a copy of Calico, either.)
FWCC has a lot of cool folks with a few hundred combined years of numismatic experience, and a very long history, but I don't know about "the governments top guy" since I am not a member, only know them and some of their members via TNA events. Besides, I'm not sure that even if someone is allegedly "the governments top guy" they are qualified to render opinions on 15th-16th c. Spanish hammered coinage!
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1780 Posts |
@paralyse ... thanks for that input ... isn't it comforting to know our govt. has a "top guy" Spanish coinage expert ... lol ... the edge seems way ttoo thick to be a hammered coin, but I'm still waiting for a response from the seller (1:20 p.m. CST) ...
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Moderator
United States
188130 Posts |
Very interesting analysis, paralyse!  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Reader's Digest, etc. replica. Been posted about multiple times on here through the years and can find 3-5 on ebay at any given time. A charter member of the Hall of Stupidity, alongside the 1760 Mexico 8R Becker replica and the 1736 Lima 8E genuine pirate gold doubloon argh ugh. All often found in dead Grandma's stuff then sold by ppl like Tex there for Busch Light money. See this listing for some of its friends: https://www.ebay.com/itm/304022508218  |
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Moderator
United States
188130 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Quote:
but I don't have a copy of Calico... Yes you do... https://www.aureo.com/en/comprarcatalogoThis piece, btw, IS a fairly faithful cast of a Toledo 1R. Don't get yourself too worked up about not being able to find EXACT matches for Ferd & Isab pieces - there are a million varieties, some still show up as "Unlisted". Judge the piece on its merits. The cousin to this cast, however, is a cast of what's supposed to be some sort of F & I 2R, but totally cartoonish/fabricated. It sometimes shows up with the description card that shows this Toledo 1R replica. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1780 Posts |
@realeswatcher ... Thanks, much, for this info ... I've not yet heard back from this seller, but some of you may want to contact this guy & let him know ... ... HOWEVER ... our " TOPGOVTCOUNTERFEITEXPERT" will be heartbroken to learn of his mistake ...  Edited by mrwiskers
07/31/2024 3:37 pm
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Moderator
Australia
16817 Posts |
Quote:
...we have the governments top guy on counterfeit coins... The head of the Investigations branch of the Secret Service is a member of their coin club? Impressive. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Being a member of a coin club doesn't make you an expert on anything in and of itself, of course. I don't know much about Catholic Kings coinage (or any early Spanish hammered coinage) - only what I can find with some rudimentary research, which is why having actual experts like Sap, realeswatcher, et al. is such a huge asset to CCF. What more could you ask for than having the people who quite literally wrote a book on the subject as frequent contributors?
Thanks for the link to Calico -- I will add that link to my bookmarks, although I prefer hard copies to put into my actual library, of course! I saw that there were quite a large number of motto variations, especially between the multiple mints and the long time period of coinage, so I was looking at similar examples of that obverse and trying to find matching reverses on the assumption that if only a few types were struck with that obverse die, the number of reverse die pairings would have been similar in number. The thing that most concerned me about OP's piece is that it seemed really mushy compared to what I could find, and also thicker than I would have expected, so proceeded along those lines.
FWCC does have at least two members whom I would absolutely consider experts in their particular areas of interest (and a couple others I know personally from local shows) but I don't know who this seller is.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
Any ebay cob that looks this good is a fake. If you want a real one, open up your wallet and shop with Sedwick. "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
08/04/2024 1:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1780 Posts |
Ya got that right, thq ... have bought from & sold to Dan for a few decades ...
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Replies: 15 / Views: 820 |
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Posted 07/31/2024 10:23 am
