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 Replies: 7 / Views: 1,135 |
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New Member
United States
44 Posts |
I picked this one up as an unidentified coin at an antique store in rural south England along with some quarters and halves of old English silver pennies and groats. I assume they were all metal detector finds from the area. It's 27mm and 2.29g and I believe an Edward I Groat (Spink 1379) although I think that's light for a groat. Can anyone confirm that or set me on the right track? A lot of reigns in that era had very similar looking designs but my research and the lettering keeps bringing me back to Edward I Groat. If it is an S-1379, any opinions on which of the Spink variations? thanks    Edited by syarnie
08/21/2024 5:52 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
It purports to be an Edward I groat but I'm suspicious of its authenticity.
IM Cross pattee
Obv EDWARDVS:DI:GRA:REX:ANGL: (Edward, by the Grace of God, King of the English)
Outer Rev DNS HIBNE DVX AQVT (Lord of Ireland and Duke of Aquitaine)
Inner Rev LONDONIA CIVI (City of London)
If genuine it should be around 5.5-5.9 grams and about 27mm diameter (assuming it hasn't been clipped or filed.) It's much too light at 2.29 grams. That's closer to a heavy half groat, but a half groat is much smaller than 27mm (usually around 21mm.)
Even allowing for ground corrosion and loss of metal/silver crystallization this coin looks rather mushy and crude. Edward I's groats were usually struck up well and did not circulate much as they were extremely unpopular; a lot of them ended up as jewelry and have been damaged, bent, holed, gilded, or had a mount attached.
Genuine Edward I groats are all rare to very rare depending on class/type. There are a large number of modern cast museum copies. High-end examples of the rarer types (when they actually come up for sale) with strong eye appeal and minimal damage will bring multiple thousands of pounds.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis Edited by paralyse
08/21/2024 6:09 pm
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New Member
 United States
44 Posts |
Extremely helpful, Paralyse. Really appreciate it.
I was excited until I put it on the scale and of your input makes perfect sense.
I didn't pay a crazy amount for it so it's just part of the cost of education in this hobby, I suppose.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
In this hobby, education saves you money. It's always a good idea to do a little research first to avoid a lot of heartache later!
It's normal for hammered silver to lose some of its weight, especially if it's been in the ground for a few centuries (metal is leached out into the surrounding soil) but over 50% of its weight is highly improbable. That + the overall grainy, mushy appearance of the coin is a good "tell-tale" for a likely cast copy.
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Moderator
 Australia
16809 Posts |
My eye was immediately drawn to that one patch of surface that looks "different" - the area inside the lobe to the left of the portrait, which looks flattened or scuffed. I'm wondering if there was a "WRL" stamp or some other replica-mark there, that some less-than-scrupulous person has attempted to remove. Ah, I've even found an example on ebay (yes, yes, it's against ebay policy to sell replicas, but we'll let that slide for now) but with the WRL still there, in the suspicious location: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304421690898Stealing the picture for posterity:  Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Moderator
Australia
16809 Posts |
I believe that's what's known in the industry as a "smoking gun".  On looking further, there's plenty of places where you can buy these WRL-stamped replica groats in bulk. These guys. These guys. And if this guy on the Numista forum can be believed, they also bought them in bulk to use as props for the 2010 Robin Hood movie. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12057 Posts |
Yes, they are fairly common, and all look about the same.
Nice detective work, Sap!
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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New Member
United States
44 Posts |
Lock, stock and barrel. Such a incredible forum and thanks for the research time and the info. This hobby is so interesting and get to learn things every day.
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Replies: 7 / Views: 1,135 |
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Posted 08/22/2024 06:40 am
