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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,285 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
What is the sellers responsibility if an Item is lost in the mail ?
I have an Item which I paid for and the seller says shipped on the 20th from cal. to New Mexico,, the Item has not shown up ,, The seller communicated with me until I asked for his policy for lost items, then dead silence ,, no response to email.
Just wondering what you all think ? I actually believe he sent it ,, but there is no way to prove it,,He says first class bubblemailer. even gave me a time like he is reading a receipt.
Seller has a 99.7 feedback rating ,, nothing in the auction about Insurance no disclaimer .
Not an expensive coin 11.00 with shipping ,, so its not a great loss either way, but I really wanted the coin !!
Parliment House 1927 Australian Florin !!
Rick
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
Even with a disclaimer, the seller is obligated to get your item to you. I don't know where people got the idea that, if they sell an item, they can decide not to be held responsible if the item never reaches the buyer. Federal law says otherwise. If you paid via Paypal, he is required to use delivery confirmation. If he had used dc, he would know that it was not delivered.
Even if Paypal did not require delivery confirmation, we would use it. It only costs 14 cents and is well worth it. We have had a couple of customers try to say that they didn't receive their items and we traced the dc number. Once we provided a delivery date, these people miraculously "found" the package. Scams are not always just perpetrated by sellers.
If you did not receive your item, you have a right to have your money refunded. If you paid by Paypal, file a dispute with them and you will win if he can't prove delivery.
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Valued Member
United States
103 Posts |
I agree fully with Susan here........the ultimate responsibility rests with the seller to make sure you get what you paid for. I had a similar situation reguarding a coin I sold that never arrived...the buyer emailed me and we kept in good communications......I assured him if the coin did not turn up I would promptly refund his entire bid price........the item was sent first class but I did not have delivery confirmation as it was a small purchase.....I could not prove he had not received it so I refunded his money and now I send everything with with DC........Live and learn.!!!
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
As Susan said, the item is the seller's responsibility right up to the moment of delivery. Ever since I started using Delivery Confirmation two years ago, I have had zero problems with buyers wondering when they would receive their items or trying to state that they never received it.
Only recently have I started using eBay/PayPal's label printing function. Besides saving a fair amount on Delivery Confirmation (14 cents vs 65 cents), it also looks professional.
However, in the past few months, I've had three minor ulcer-creating situations due to Postal Service deficiencies. In two instances, the DC number didn't show up on the USPS Tracking site as having been activated; however, both were picked up in the system upon delivery. In the third situation, the number kept coming up at my end as having been submitted to the PO, but nothing for delivery. It finally arrived after more than two weeks in the mail (from AZ to PA). The buyer wasn't happy with the postal system, but he was very pleased a mechanism was in place to track a missing package if it proved necessary.
I think any seller who does NOT use Delivery Confirmation or Signature Required or some other means for tracking an item or otherwise protecting an item in shipment is negligent and should be held liable for a missing item.
Fred
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7123 Posts |
Thank You everyone for the comments !! I did not use paypal, I sent a postal Money order,, I will give him one more opportunity to re open the lines of communication if this does not happen I will file with ebay dispute resolution and see what happens. Rick |
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Moderator
United States
23534 Posts |
New issues from sellers. I had won a auction - received and invoice- paid for the item with priority shipping. I then receive an email from ebay say that I had returned the item and there was a mutual agreement to cancel the auction and my money would be refunded. What was this all about- I had returned nothing and had received nothing I them received notification from paypal to find my money had been returned. Having sat through the auction- why would you bid on something you don't want? I was puzzled and I refused to acknowledge the mutual withdrawal due to the fact that I had returned the item. I emailed and had an ongoing discussion with the seller and a second discussion with ebay. They changed the wording and I agreed to mutually withdraw. I had purchased a banknote aand the seller is claiming that when he went to package the note it was in worse condition that as described in the auction. I can accept that - but I could not accept that I was being accused of returning an Item I had not received. Lesson read what you agree to- I always do- It drives people crazy- but I refuse to sign document I have not read nor will I sign an on line form that does not state the Truth now there is a great word Truth. (my rant for the day) rggoodie
aka Richard
"catch em doing something right"
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Valued Member
United States
94 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by rggoodie
I can accept that - but I could not accept that I was being accused of returning an Item I had not received.
It sounds like the seller just chose the wrong option--he should have chosen 'Other' for reasons to mutually withdraw. Seems like a simple mistake on his part, but I can understand where you're coming from--I returned something I never received...hmmmm.. |
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Forum Dad
United States
24169 Posts |
quote:
In two instances, the DC number didn't show up on the USPS Tracking site as having been activated; however, both were picked up in the system upon delivery.
Fred, that's the way its supposed to work. DC is delivery confirmation and nothing else. It's not tracking. If you want actual tracking you have to pay more. In some instances it will get scanned along the way, but that's a bonus, as you didn't pay for it. My PO will scan them in for me as a courtesy if I ask, but their not required to. Some PO's flat out refuse to, and their entitled. This is why I never give the buyer the tracking number. If you check it prior to delivery, it looks like you never shipped it. The USPS needs to change the wording on their website. Also I have had a few buyers email me and say they never got their package and give me the tracking number telling me to check on it. Well, when I ask them where they got the tracking number, I never hear from them again, since the only way they could have it is if they have the package in their hands.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
No and yes. You are correct that it is not tracking (I should not have used the word in context with Delivery Confirmation); it is intended to confirm delivery only. However, from what I understand but without digging into the USPS procedure manuals to verify it, the Postal Service MUST enter the Delivery Confirmation number into its electronic system at the time of shipment at a Post Office. This puts the parcel into the "Accountable Mail" classification and is to document that the parcel was indeed submitted to the Post Office either in the form of a pre-printed label or using a DC form (Form 152). Mere printing of the label or postmark-stamped certificate producing a DC number is not enough to demonstrate that the Postal Service has actually received the article for shipment - it needs to be in the electronic system for validation; this is why the USPS will state on its tracking site that a computer generated shipping label with DC number has been printed/issued, but the parcel has not yet been received at the Post Office for shipment. Similarly, the green certificate needs to be scanned in to put it into the system to document the fact that it has been delivered to the Post Office.
When the two parcels had not been entered into the system ("There is no record of this item" appeared on the online USPS Track & Confirm site) , I grew concerned until the PO at the distant end picked them up and entered them into the system as delivered. And for the missing package, all the T&C site said was "This item was submitted for shipment at [e.g.] 8:55PM at Salome, AZ 85348 on Feb 4 2006." with no record of delivery, so I at least had verification that the parcel was in the hands of the Postal Service. When it finally arrived at its destination 15 days later, it was entered into the system and the buyer was happy and I was relieved.
I have never had a Post Office NOT scan a DC number into its system at the time I mailed a DC-labeled parcel (experiences in NY [several ZIPs], PA, GA [saved my bacon one time on a lost parcel because their system showed it had been shipped], WA, UT, CA, and AZ [several locations]). I'm surprised to hear that any Post Office does not do such scans. For their own protection, I would think that they would want to scan all DC numbers at time of shipment. In this manner, they would protect themselves against accusations that a parcel was lost in the mail when, in fact it had never been submitted for shipment. However, I am well aware that MANY postal workers do not understand their own system; I have argued with postal clerks several times trying to get them to understand that an Insured Parcel does NOT have a tracking number which can be followed online when they tried to refuse to sell me Delivery Confirmation. I have also had postal clerks try to tell me that DC is done by weight, not by thickness - even the green certificate says on back it's done by thickness.
I had not considered the aspect of not giving a buyer a CD tracking number since I have always taken a DC number as proof that it WAS submitted to the Post Office. As mentioned, whenever and wherever I have submitted packages, they have always scanned them in. For this reason and to cover myself, I always send the buyer the DC number to let him/her know that it has been shipped. In this manner, we are both protected and we can blame the Postal Service for lost items.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Please be aware if you buy in Europe that most countries laws do not consider mailing efficiency nor results as part of the deal .
The mail is a thire party providing a service
In other words if something insured gets lost in principal you have to handle the claim yourself ( of course in most cases the vendor is willing to do the paperwork )
Moreover I seem to understand that if you did not pay for registered mail you will have no right to complain whatsoever unless you paid with a credit card which might help you upon complaint .
I understand think am not sure that paypal will not help you if the post was not registered post
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Forum Dad
United States
24169 Posts |
Fred, the bottom line is that the USPS has the worst trained employees I have ever seen. You can ask 10 different employees the same question and get 10 different answers. Pick an employee and ask them the difference between media mail and bound printed matter. You have about a 80% chance of seeing them self destruct. I know someone that actually won a bet with their postmaster. They wanted to ship player piano rolls via media mail and the PM said no way and was very emphatic about it. Well he was wrong and he's the boss! I spoke with the Philadelphia PostMaster at 30th street station. All they are required to do is provide Delivery Confirmation. Also, if push comes to shove, it's not even considered proof of delivery, which is a different fee. Some PO's scan all DC's when they leave the PO for delivery, which doesn't prove it was delivered. Here is what the PO says in the Domestic Mail Manual... quote:
9.2.1 Description
Delivery Confirmation service provides the mailer with information about the date and time an article was delivered and, if delivery was attempted but not successful, the date and time of the delivery attempt. Delivery Confirmation service is available only at the time of mailing. No record is kept at the office of mailing. Delivery Confirmation service does not include insurance, but insurance may be purchased as an additional service (see 9.2.6). Some statutes and regulations governing the mailing of documents with legal significance may require the use of Certified Mail or Registered Mail rather than Delivery Confirmation.
You can find this on this page. Be sure to pay close attention to the words that they emphasize. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
There was no response to my last email to the seller,, I opened a dispute this morning, Interesting though !! He left me positive feedback but did not respond to my email ?
Some peoples kids !!!
Rick
Edited by Metalman
04/06/2006 2:20 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Update I opened the Item Not received dispute,, I have gotten one email from this seller,, all indignant smoke !!(Ive got 34 years as a collectable dealer type thing (how dare I open this dispute) I responded with I will wait another week then I want my payment back,, no response from the seller. I think he knows that it will cost me 25.00 to recover 11 bucks !! This is a stupid thing for ebay to do ,, charge the buyer for a seller problem !!! I dont think he is going to do the right thing !!! If he dont ? Rick |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Rick, I'd be inclined to file anyway even if it cost me more than the item is worth, just on principle alone. It will also be a black mark on the seller's ebay record. Would you feel comfortable sharing with us the seller's ID or the auction? Someone for us to avoid. I can't stand arrogance with no foundation. Bon chance, mon ami! Fred |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Hi Fred
Ive already made up my mind ,, I will continue the dispute until all avenues have been exhausted.
No I dont mind sharing the sellers name and the auction itself, If this guy does not do whats right !!
Rick
Edited by Metalman
04/09/2006 4:43 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I know in my small town (may be different other places) that they do not scan the package when it arrives at the post office and when you go to their website it clearley states that just because a label was made doesn't mean it has been delivered to the post office, it will stay that way until it is delivered then it will change with the delivery information. I can not track nor porrve that the package was picked up by the mailman (or delivered to the postoffice) online at all until its delivered.
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,285 |
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Posted 04/04/2006 10:37 pm
