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Replies: 14 / Views: 949 |
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Valued Member
United States
388 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
73698 Posts |
Very interesting. 
Errers and Varietys.
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Valued Member
 United States
388 Posts |
I agree with you errors and varieties, I'm just curious as to what it is. As far as I know it's the wrong area for doubling so I'm just confused honestly
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8730 Posts |
I'm not 100% sure but would lean towards MD, you can see it in the same direction as what's happening on the nose. Always look at the surrounding area in question and you can get the answer yourself, much of the time. 
-makecents-
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Valued Member
 United States
388 Posts |
The nose just looks circulated in hand. I'm not seeing MD the green arrow which is where one arrow was pointed looks to be a hit from another coin to me.   From my understanding the nose looks normal to me the black arrows indicate what I think are normal design elements. Those areas from what I can tell should look as they do. The red arrows are the questionable things. They look look rounded not step like to me.they also look to be out of place for lack of better wording. Am I just overlooking the placement of the red arrow things? Are they MD and I'm just seeing it weird? I'm just confused now
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Valued Member
 United States
388 Posts |
 Left hand side is the first random 2023 I could find laying around. The right hand is the coin of question. if you guys say it's Machine Doubling I'll just be confused for a while till I wrap my head around it and that's ok. It just looks the be outside the bounds of normal design elements do me. But I could be wrong.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8730 Posts |
As I said, not 100% sure about this one. A huge contributor to what you see and what we see with the pics you give us is due to directional lighting differences. Here are the other two pics you had in the triple pic. They look totally different. I picked the first of the three because it looks very similar to push doubling, not damage or a doubled die. The eye area is different but could easily be because of lighting. There are certain areas on a coin that will give you what I would call backwash with the lighting. The light reflects off of other devices. The nose eye area is one of these, in my opinion. Also keep this in mind with letters that curl, such as the R in AMERICA, light will refract off itself and create "doubling" that is not actually there. I fought this for a long time before I came to grips with it. Do 1/4 turns with your coin, concentrating on the same area and see if it shows, no matter how you turn it. 
-makecents-
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8730 Posts |
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Valued Member
 United States
388 Posts |
Fair enough I'll be trying a quarter turn for visibility that may be what I need to do. I'll get back to you in a bit out and about right now. I have heard of push doubling and read up on it. I may have overlooked something I'll get back with my findings shortly. At first glance it doesn't look like normal MD I'll check again
Edited by Decaf94drew 12/12/2024 10:16 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1791 Posts |
I can't comment on this particular coin but as makesense said, rotating a coin is very important. For shield cents, its because of the rounded nature of the devices which tends to create a light induced doubling. On older cents and other denominations, it will eliminate early Die Deterioration where the side of the device increases from 90 degrees For example, a device appears to be doubled. When the is rotated, you notice that its just the side of the device because the top edge of the device has moved more toward the center of the device (greater than 90 degrees) from die wear. So if you rotate a coin and what you are seeing is always there, then its not an illusion caused by lighting and angle. At this point, I choose the best rotation with lighting to photograph the anomaly and correct orientation during cropping.
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Valued Member
 United States
388 Posts |
So went through with a single light at about 45 ° the photos are rotating the coin clock wise I hand held the camera and loupe was I supposed to use a tripod and shoot from directly overhead for each shot? I marked the position of my lighting in relation to the camera and loupe. I'm seeing it regardless of rotation. Not sure what it is. If it's MD I really need to go back and reread a bunch, which I'll probably do regardless. Thoughts and comments appreciated. If these photos werent helpful I can set up a tripod and rotate the coin keeping camera stationary from above. Not sure what would work best. Edited to add this all. I Set up my tripod, set up my loupe and had both stationary took photos with only the rotation of the coin changing. L marks where the light was in relation to the coin. Apologies for the low quality photos having to do this on my phone. Hopefully this helps show better whatever it is I'm seeing. 
Edited by Decaf94drew 12/13/2024 03:25 am
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Moderator
 United States
94795 Posts |
Well, it could be a doubled eye (I'm not that good with the eyes), but the mark on the nose looks like a hit to me.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8730 Posts |
You may have something here but not sure. If it were me, I would hold onto it, label it in a 2x2 and keep an "eye" open for others. I have more experience with the shield than I like to admit and REALLY do not like them, but where I roll hunt, you have to work with what you have sometimes.  I know yours is a Denver coin but here is a link to a thread I started on some 23P's that I found doubling on multiple coins, which turned into hundreds of coins. This, of course, lead me to believe it was a doubled working hub issue, which this may be too. The problem with yours, is it is a very small area, which many are not probably even paying attention to when searching and may be overlooking other examples that are out there. Not saying it is, but another thing to keep in mind, this is a plated coin, it could be as simple as a plating issue. 2023 P link http://goccf.com/t/462317&SearchTerms=2023
-makecents-
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Valued Member
 United States
388 Posts |
Good observation Dearborn I agree with you on the nose being a hit. Now that I have an idea this may be something I do plan to save it in a 2x2. In a couple weeks when I have my camera again I may try to get better photos and see what coneca thinks. Thank you for your input makecents, knowing my luck it probably is only work hub related  dunno but thank you everyone who commented your help is appreciated.
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Replies: 14 / Views: 949 |
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