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1937-D Nickel Confusion "Md" Actually A Variety?

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wadahek's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2025  12:23 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add wadahek to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm running into a weird bit of confusion, which boils down to...if doubling everyone attributes to MD is found multiple times, is it actually a die variety after all?

I found this 1937-D Buffalo nickel in a Whitman album from estate sale, and had thought it was most likely MD. When looking for an existing DDO listing, I found instances of seemingly identical coins (with the same minor die rotation and an identical doubling effect) in various listings online. The thing is, every trusted and experienced collector who has given their Two Cents on forum posts I've found has confirmed my initial suspicions on these identical coins that it's "just MD". Is it just me making something out of nothing (which I know is a natural tendency), or is this a variety that's avoided enough suspicion to go on being tossed aside as MD?

full obverse
1937-D-Nickel-Confusion-

date
1937-D-Nickel-Confusion-

profile
1937-D-Nickel-Confusion-

obligatory reverse
1937-D-Nickel-Confusion-

An example of an identical coin for sale on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314420423552

<edit>
I found various examples of identical coins and threads about them but only on coincommunity competitors I don't use (which I originally linked without much thought), so I'll be looking to see if there are examples on coincommunity. Sorry about that, mods!

<edit 2>
Link to a coin community listing below

http://goccf.com/t/394515
Edited by wadahek
03/04/2025 3:30 pm
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Marv65's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2025  01:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I found instances of seemingly identical coins (with the same minor die rotation and an identical doubling effect) in various listings online. T

You only show one coin. There is no way to answer your question if you don't provide other examples.
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wadahek's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2025  01:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wadahek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Marve65, the other coin examples are linked at the bottom of my post.
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Marv65's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2025  02:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
the other coin examples are linked at the bottom of my post.

Ah, Roger that!
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Marv65's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2025  02:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see similar but different variations of MD. Possibly it was a common way the machine "bounced" back then when minting coins. A "Variety" would be from some problem with the die that occurred producing many coins with the "Exact" same defect.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2025  07:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
confirmed my initial suspicions on these identical coins that it's "just MD"


Yes that is exactly what it looks like to me. Just because MD is a one-off event, doesn't mean that many coins were struck under similar conditions with virtually identical doubling.
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Brandmeister's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2025  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Check Brandmeister's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Brandmeister to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's also worth noting that some shallow hubbings produce doubled dies that can closely resemble Machine Doubling.

That said, the way this doubling appears on the date, profile, braid all look like classic Machine Doubling to me. But I can certainly be wrong, which is why we have paid evaluation resources like Dr. Wiles, Brian Ribar, and the Wexler team.
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Errers and Varietys's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2025  9:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Errers and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Marve65 said it well. It does look like Machine Doubling. Remember, Machine Doubling is not the same thing as a Doubled Die. A Doubled Die happens when there's a mistake in the die making process. Machine Doubling happens during striking of the coins.
https://doubleddie.com/58201.html
https://doubleddie.com/58222.html
Errers and Varietys.
Edited by Errers and Varietys
03/04/2025 9:13 pm
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wadahek's Avatar
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 Posted 03/04/2025  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wadahek to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm settled on this being MD then. Thank you all for humoring me and helping me feel settled with it!

My assumption is that perhaps the die had been loose in a this specific direction, making many 1937-D nickels with eerily comparable Machine Doubling that also match in non-MD die markings.
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 03/05/2025  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been away from these boards a couple years, but I am back. Let me weigh in on an explanation of the Machine Doubling in the Buffalo series.

From the early 1900s through WWII, many of the primary coining presses at all three mints were the Ferracute knuckle presses. These were almost all of the presses at the Denver and San Francisco mint during the Buffalo nickel years. Remember that the Denver and San Francisco mints originally were created to strike gold coins, and incidentally the silver coins. They never expected to strike bronze or cupro-nickel coins. The Ferracute presses did an adequate job striking soft metal coins, such as gold or silver. They did a poor job with bronze or cupro-nickel coins.

These coining presses used a knuckle (rocker arm) assembly to roll the hammer die (obverse die for most coins) across the top of the planchet, forcing the metal into the two dies with both pressure and motion. Think about how we walk, with our heels touching and our feet rolling forward until our toes touch. The tonnage of the presses varied from 110 tons to over 250 tons. These presses were slow, clunky, extremely dangerous to operate, vibrated like crazy, and required hand feeding the planchets into a tube, which then dropped a planchet into a feeder and moved the feeder into the striking zone when the knuckle was retracted for the next strike. It was this rocking motion of the hammer die that made Machine Doubling common throughout the Buffalo nickel series, especially at the branch mints, both because of the press and because of the hardness of the cupro-nickel composition.

Knuckle presses at full capacity could only produce around 5,000 coins per hour. In comparison, a modern Schuler lateral press can produce 50,000+ coins per hour. A few Ferracute presses were still in use through the 1950s, but almost exclusively were used for silver quarters and half dollars by that time, because of the softer metal, lower relief designs, easier size of planchet for hand-feeding, and much lower tonnage required to strike the coins. They were replaced first by the single-head vertical strike Bliss presses, and then by the more modern four-head vertical strike Bliss presses, both of which were vast improvements for harder metal coins.

The need to hand-feed the presses also explains both the extensive die clashing throughout the Buffalo series, and the need for extensive die polishing to remove evidence of the clashing. The proximity of the feeding tubes to the hand-chomping dies and lack of safety guards on the knuckle presses made them exceptionally dangerous. It also explains why the die polishing was vigorous and done with little care for the dies, especially in the branch mints.

There are videos online of the Ferracute presses in operation. Ferracute knuckle presses (thankfully) were made obsolete by the four-head vertical strike Bliss mechanical presses. The Bliss presses were made obsolete by Germany's Schuler lateral presses. Ferracute went out of business in the 1960s.

If anyone is interested in chasing this issue further, Ferracute's business records are available on microfiche (yes, really) at the Hagley Museum and Library in Wilmington, Delaware. They have the Ferracute order records and design drawings for the US Mint. In may be possible to determine which presses were used for coining the Buffalo nickels. If anyone wants to live dangerously and doesn't mind losing fingers or hands from these monsters, they can even buy some of the mint's old Ferracute coining presses. They are still in warehouses and listed by machine vendors all over the place. They weigh 5-9 tons each, probably need complete rebuilding, and are among the most dangerous machines ever built. But they are still lurking out there.
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 03/05/2025  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Let me weigh in on an explanation of the Machine Doubling in the Buffalo series...
Very interesting!
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Petespockets55's Avatar
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 Posted 03/06/2025  05:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will point out that the 1969S Lincoln Cent is one of the most well-known examples of MD being mistaken for true hub doubling.

ps. Welcome back Ft Collins. Love your detailed explanations. Thank you.
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-makecents-'s Avatar
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 Posted 03/06/2025  09:16 am  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, fortcollins, very cool information! The different types of presses used over the years is something I know little about. Crazy thinking there were some hand fed, just that short time ago....
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 Posted 03/06/2025  10:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I will point out that the 1969S Lincoln Cent is one of the most well-known examples of MD being mistaken for true hub doubling.
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