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Replies: 20 / Views: 4,776 |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
2830 Posts |
quote: "5-cent piece not worth a cracker - THE Royal Australian Mint is believed to be poised to scrap the five-cent piece as part of an overhaul of Australian coins that will also give the Queen a makeover. The move — which many retailers support — could upset some consumers, with all transactions needing to be rounded to the nearest 10 cents. Sources have told The Age that secret preparations for the change have been under way since early this year. Royal Australian Mint acting CEO Graham Smith would not comment yesterday, but said he would give The Age a statement on Monday. Earlier a mint spokesman did not deny the plans to abolish the coin, saying: "We are not going to answer that question." But a reliable source said staff in the design and engraving section had been working for some months on a redesign that would include an updated portrait of the Queen on all Australian coins. Any change to the royal portrait requires the Queen's approval. ... [blah blah blah]" I'm not sure that this isn't a beat-up, stemming from the paucity of more interesting headlines. If you want the rest of the story, go to - http://www.theage.com.au/national/5...22-bic4.htmlIf there seems to be any truth in this, I'll start hording on Monday ... Peter in Darwin
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Moderator
 Australia
16837 Posts |
The Mint isn't really part of the decision-making process with regards to issuing circulation coins. The Treasury is; the mint simply makes what it's been told to make by Treasury. The mint, being expert in the making of coins, can advise Treasury and make recommendations to them, but the buck stops with the government.
Changes to the coinage have to pass through Treasury, and ultimately Parliament, first. "Secret Plans" will amount to nothing without public announcements being made well in advance of any implementation.
All that being said, it only stands to reason that Australia will follow in New Zealand's footsteps and reform the minor coinage. The writing's on the wall; the coins simply cost too much to make. Abolition of the 5¢ and re-formulation and/or resizing of the 10¢, 20¢ and 50¢ are entirely logical and reasonable. In light of that, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the mint is experimenting with new alloys and sizes, so it can give meaningful recommendations to Treasury. This is probably the extent of any "secret plans".
Look at it this way: Australia is now the last Commonwealth country to still use the old "predecimal-sized" coins - the equivalent of the old sixpence, shilling and florin - in the same weights and compositions that was used in the 1960's. We have among the heaviest circulating coins, and certainly the most intrinsically valuable. Change is inevitable, it's only a matter of time.
As for the Queen's portrait, while the portrait itself might require the Queen's approval prior to use, the decision to use it does not. Coin designs are entirely up to Treasury to decide upon. At the moment, Australia uses the same royal portraits that Britain does. But there's nothing to stop us from using a "home-grown" portrait, like Canada does. They could even decide to get rid of the Queen altogether, if they wanted... it would only have to pass through Parliament.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1077 Posts |
The 5 cent is quite a large denomination to scrap isn't it?
That would mean the smallest coin would be worth about 5 UK pence or 7.5 US cents.
Which is still a relatively large increment to my mind.
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Formerly nancyc
Australia
5385 Posts |
It doesn't really mean all prices will be rounded up/down to the nearest 10¢. In supermarkets, it's the total of the sale that gets rounded, not individual prices.
There was a lot of confusion about this when the 1¢ & 2¢ were scrapped, but there's no real big difference.
Most places round totals ending in 1¢ & 2¢, and 6¢ & 7¢ down and totals ending in 3¢ & 4¢, 8¢ & 9¢ up. There may be some unscrupulous merchants who will try to make a few cents extra out of people, but they'll be in the minority.
Of course, none of this will be of any concern until Treasury decides the 5¢ will become extinct.
life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1082 Posts |
I'm thinking I need to get some Australian 5c pieces fast before they all disappear...
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
If you are going to hoard, look out for 1972. The only circulating year with any value.
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Moderator
 Australia
16837 Posts |
Quote: I said earlier: Australia is now the last Commonwealth country to still use the old "predecimal-sized" coins - the equivalent of the old sixpence, shilling and florin - in the same weights and compositions that was used in the 1960's. I stand corrected: Samoa (formerly Western Samoa) still uses them too. I just bought a set of Samoan coins dated 2006, and they're still cupronickel. And the Samoan tala is worth less than half the Australian dollar; the Samoan government must see keeping the coinage formula as a public service, because they'll be making a big loss on all their circulating denominations. Smaller countries like Samoa can afford to take such losses on the chin, because there aren't very many coins to begin with. Larger economies simply can't afford it. Samoa may also be a special case, in that the Samoan King, whose portrait is on all their coins, is held in very high regard in Samoan society. Nobody would dare melt down his coins; it would be extremely... impolite. Australians like their Queen, but wouldn't let her stand in the way of them making a few bucks profit (as was proven with the silver 50¢ coins in 1966).
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1064 Posts |
The queen's protrait gets changed every 15 years or so anyway. There are only a few more years left before the UK will probably change the portrait. Maybe Australia will go its own way, or maybe we will follow you.
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Valued Member
Australia
153 Posts |
I think 2010 will be the last 5c
On 22 May Royal Australian Mint acting CEO Graham Smith would not comment yesterday, but said he would give The Age a statement on Monday.I haven't heard of his statement on Monday 25th in the Age,did he actually make a statement?
The RAM this year is not communicating real well with anyone even their wholesale dealers are not real happy I as a collector am totally disgusted by the way the RAM treats all of their clients and dealers who contribute AUD$10M to their coffers
Not encouraging to anyone yet alone potential new collectors
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
Yes the RAM seems to have lost the plot this year.
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Moderator
 United States
23531 Posts |
Quote: Australia's 5-Cent Coin to be Scrapped Australia By Richard Giedroyc, World Coin News July 13, 2009 Australia
"Australia's most shunned shrapnel" is the way the circulating 5-cent coin was recently described by one source. The Royal Australian Mint is preparing to abandon the denomination, due to its cost exceeding its face value, despite outrage being reported by consumers over the move.
Australia has previously ceased issuing the 1- and 2-cent denominations, while extending its coin denominations as high as $5 at the expense of bank notes of the same value. All these have been cost saving measures as the expense of making coins and bank notes continues to soar. Neighboring New Zealand abandoned its 5-cent coin in 2006 for similar reasons.
Each time a low denomination coin has ceased to be issued for circulation, Australian merchants have responded by rounding up prices, causing inflation in the process. This reaction is true not only in Australia, but all over the world. This is one of the arguments the United States has used for continuing to issue the 1 cent denomination.
Australian Retailers Association Executive Director Richard Evans told NineMSN that retailers would welcome the change, saying: "There is nothing in the marketplace that requires a 5-cent piece - For example - even vending machines don't take them."
According to a May 25 NineMSN report, "He [Evans] conceded that retailers would be forced to round-up or round-down their prices to the nearest 10 cents. However, he said he would not expect it to affect inflation." I guess Evans has never been in Rome, Italy, where everything has been rounded up to the 1 euro denomination, ignoring all euro cent denominated coins and values.
Evans told another news agency that many retailers found the small coins to be what he termed to be a "menace" to handle and would support the move. Evans acknowledged the change would complicate pricing policies, and retailers would need some direction, perhaps from the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, on whether they should round prices up or down, adding: "As long as it doesn't provide any burden in terms of costs for retailers they'd probably support it."
Evans is apparently not a politician, since he crassly added, "The only people it will probably affect is money boxes for children."
According to the publication The Age, "The plan to ditch the 5-cent piece follows the scrapping of 1 and 2-cent coins in the early 1990s. Federal Treasurer Paul Keating said then that the cost of minting the copper coins far exceeded their value, and they had lost their real purchasing power."
Keating was quoted at that time as saying, "Many people regard them as a nuisance - millions of these coins drop out of circulation each year."
The Age added, "Prices began being rounded to the nearest 5 cents for cash transactions."
Although the RAM attempted to keep the news of the demise of the 5-cent coin under wraps it has been no secret the mint staff has been working for months on a redesign for all circulating Australian coins. This is to include a new image of Queen Elizabeth II, who has to personally approve the design before it can be used. The Ian Rank-Broadley portrait of the queen has appeared on the obverse, with the echidna on the reverse of the 5-cent coin since 1999.
Minister for Superannuation and Corporate Law Nick Sherry has the jurisdiction regarding if the RAM will continue to produce 5-cent coins or not. A spokesman for Sherry recently tried to circumvent acknowledging the change was on the way, telling NineMSN: "Any decision on the future of the coin is a government policy matter. There is no policy to dump the 5-cent coin."
The May 22 WAToday reported, "The move - which many retailers support - could upset some consumers, with all transactions needing to be rounded to the nearest 10 cents."
Choice spokesman Christopher Zinn told one source there was no doubt some people would welcome a decision to scrap what he called the "inconvenient" coin, but the real question was what impact would it have on prices.
Zinn said, "And if you tell people the prices would be rounded up by 5 cents I'm sure they would be far more reticent in terms of seeing an end to it." He continued, "A lot of prices are already $2.99 rather than $2.95 so one could be forgiven for thinking that the temptation is far more to round up than round down."
rggoodie aka Richard "catch em doing something right"
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3098 Posts |
Quote: I guess Evans has never been in Rome, Italy, where everything has been rounded up to the 1 euro denomination, ignoring all euro cent denominated coins and values.  Is that what really happens in Rome? And I wonder if the RBA would change the size of the coins, too. The current 10c coin is a bit big for the lowest denomination coin.
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Moderator
 Australia
16837 Posts |
Quote: ...Australia has previously ceased issuing the 1- and 2-cent denominations, while extending its coin denominations as high as $5 at the expense of bank notes of the same value... I guess Mr. Giedroyc has never been to Australia, otherwise he'd know that Australia has never issued a circulating $5 coin.  Quote: ...Each time a low denomination coin has ceased to be issued for circulation, Australian merchants have responded by rounding up prices, causing inflation in the process... That's just wrong, wrong, WRONG. The withdrawl of low-value coinage and the introduction of new high-value coinage are symptoms of inflation, not a cause of it. That's like saying that coughing, sneezing and sniffling will make you catch the cold virus. Rounding in Australia, when the 1¢ and 2¢ were withdrawn, had no effect on the inflation of the day. If anything, the move created a slight deflation effect as prices in some places (eg fast food) went down from say $2.99 to $2.95. Rounding works the same: $5.43 is rounded down to $5.40, while $5.44 is rounded up to $5.45. The effect is an average decrease of 1¢ on every bill. I see no reason why this would be different when the 5¢ is eventually eliminated. Not that rounding is noticed much. The only places you see rounding are places where only a small number of items are bought per customer, like a local corner store or fast food joint. In the major retailers, prices are still ticketed to the nearest cent; rounding happens at the checkout, over the total. Eg. you go into the supermarket and buy five chocolate bars ticketed at $1.44¢; your bill at the checkout is $7.20, not $7.25. And if you're paying by direct debit or credit card, there's no rounding at all - rounding is only for cash transactions. This too would remain unchanged. Quote: ...Although the RAM attempted to keep the news of the demise of the 5-cent coin under wraps it has been no secret the mint staff has been working for months on a redesign for all circulating Australian coins... I see no reason to invoke any kind of cloak-and-dagger secret plot to kill the 5¢. I would assume that the Mint, being prudent and wishing to keep it's researchers and designers gainfully employed, would be constantly experimenting with new designs, alloys etc. so that whenever the government comes to them and asks for recommendations on changes to the coinage, the Mint will be ready with answers.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
2830 Posts |
quote: "... otherwise he'd know that Australia has never issued a circulating $5 coin" - think again Sap: they didn't circulate for long, but they were certainly issued ... Peter in Darwin
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Moderator
 Australia
16837 Posts |
You mean the Bicentennial ones? At a mintage of only 3 million, they were NCLT. They were issued for face value, but never intended to be spent en masse.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
 Australia
2830 Posts |
NCLT ? the banks in Darwin weren't told that: they were handed over the counter. I suspect that the tellers wanted to be rid of them. I agree that they were quickly hoarded and thus disappeared from circulation. Peter
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Replies: 20 / Views: 4,776 |
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