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Replica Widow's Mite Or Not?

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 Posted 04/09/2025  11:51 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jdsstrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have read the old posts and know that these replicas (?) turn up regularly at this forum, but before you dismiss this one as another in a long line of them, please take a closer look. The obverse is nothing at all like the replicas that have been posted here before, at least unlike the ones I have seen. Even the reverse, while similar, does not have the "folds" before the diadem (if that's what it is) as those replicas that have been posted here before. It is much smaller and lighter than the examples at Numista, too: about 14 mm for the diameter at its widest point and weighing in at .65 grams. That said...

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Replica-Widow's-Mite-Or-Not?
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HondoB's Avatar
United States
24927 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2025  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HondoB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm leaning towards reproduction. It looks cast. Also, most of the mite's I've seen are pretty trashed, unlike this one.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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United States
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 Posted 04/09/2025  2:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdsstrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Hondo! The obverse seems a lot more trashed than the reverse, no? For my edification, can you help me to understand why you think it may be cast?
Edited by jdsstrat
04/09/2025 2:01 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 04/09/2025  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These were struck under Alexander Jannaeus. They have anchor one side, eight rays star on the other. I've seen many examples online, in my references books like David Hendin's Guide to Biblical Coins, online dealer sites like Vcoins, CNGcoins. They all have eight rays star. Yours is only six rays, wrong crude design. It's not genuine. It could be one of many fake coins made to sell to tourists when they visit Israel, Turkey, Egypt or just a replica.

Forger's use several methods to make fakes including casting, electrotypes, make fake dies to hand strike fake coins etc. Your mite does appear to be cast.

Cast coins can have small bubble crevises, rough sandy surfaces, edge seams. Genuine coins can have corrosion and pitting from being in the ground for centuries. Sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference between a cast fake and genuine corroded coin. The style of the design, size/weight, using a magnifier helps determine authenticity.

The Greek word used in the earliest Bible manuscripts for widow's "mite" is "lepton" which was the small bronze coins of the Jews. The exact type or ruler on the lepton the widow had is unknown, so it could have been one of several types circulating at the time.

Here is one of mine. I bought it from well known dealer Harlan J Berk years ago. It's wise to buy ancient coins from trusted dealers unless you are experienced. The Hebrew words around the anchor translate as King Alexander.

Replica-Widow's-Mite-Or-Not?
Edited by livingwater
04/09/2025 9:55 pm
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Marv65's Avatar
United States
10478 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2025  7:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Many replicas for sale on ebay and Amazon.
ebay item number:256862476889
Looks like yours has a "light strike" on the one side -
Replica-Widow's-Mite-Or-Not?
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 Posted 04/09/2025  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Marve65, replica. It's sad if replicas are sold as genuine to cheat people.
Edited by livingwater
04/09/2025 9:53 pm
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 Posted 04/09/2025  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdsstrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For the record, I did NOT buy this "thing." I inherited a large, VERY eclectic coin collection from a former dealer and am sorting through it methodically, learning as much as I can in the process, mostly with the help of this forum. I did my homework before posting this one (again mostly by reading past posts at this site) and was familiar with the most common replicas (like those at the ebay link above) as well as the 8 rays vs. 6 rays way of thinking on these, which from what I read was slightly more nuanced than "6 rays and you're out." I posted it, really, because of the obverse. I think we can all agree that it's nothing like the replicas you see here, there and everywhere. Perhaps it's just a different kind of replica. Or not. Either way I'm not looking to sell anything, just to learn as much as I can. Thank you for all the feedback. Please keep it coming.
Edited by jdsstrat
04/09/2025 10:47 pm
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16806 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2025  11:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While it is clearly different from the machine-struck mass-marketed replica widows mites, it is nevertheless derived from them - the shape of the flan is identical, as is that odd "hook" sticking off from the rim, which is like nothing I've seen on any actual ancient coin.

I have speculated in the past threads on why these machine-struck replicas look like this, and my best guess is the design is copied from an old drawing or rubbing of a widows mite, rather than from an actual coin.

My assumption for your piece would be someone obtained one of those machine-struck replicas, and then proceeded to make a cast replica of that, "improving" the design in the process.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 04/10/2025  09:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add livingwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I did not intend to imply you bought a fake, just that it does happen.

Perhaps when yours was cast there wasn't enough melted metal to fill the void in the mold creating the defective anchor side. Or the anchor side was damaged after it was cast. Though the anchor side looks different than typical replicas it's still not a genuine ancient coin. The star side proves this with only six rays and the rim "hook" on the replicas.

I think a lot of collections have a few replicas/fakes. The replics/fakes I know of in my collection are labeled on their holders. As you sort through your inherited coins, those you need to ID, you could label holders to put them in and/or create a database to list them on computer. I've done this and also took photos of my coins so my family knows about them when I'm gone.
Edited by livingwater
04/10/2025 10:10 am
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United States
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 Posted 04/10/2025  3:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdsstrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is an excellent idea, Livingwater! This project is getting bigger and staying organized has not been the priority it should have been 'til now. Thank you!
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United States
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 Posted 04/10/2025  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jdsstrat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
P.S. and F.W.I.W. the thickness of my "coin" is about 0.5 mm, which is another difference between it and the ones in the pictures above (Numista has their thickness at 1.2mm).
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