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My First Gold Coin

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Moe145's Avatar
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 Posted 05/27/2009  08:44 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
All this talk of 7070 has me thinking of the coins I don't have!

My Dansco 7070 book is being shipped right now (with the Gold page) so I have to get busy!

Here's my first Gold purchase, a 1915 $2.50 Quarter Eagle (Indian Head),(Mintage 606,100)

History (from the Net): The incused design of the $2.50 Indian Head Quarter Eagle is one of the most striking coins produced by the U.S. Mint. Minted from 1908 - 1929, it was as controversial when first released as it is sought after by todays collectors. Designed by Bela Lyon Pratt the obverse features a Native American wearing a war bonnet. On the reverse is a regal standing eagle perched on an arrow tipped fasces wrapped in an olive branch.

Can anyone explain the controversy behind this coin? (C'mon Conder101! I KNOW you know!)


My-First-Gold-Coin

My-First-Gold-Coin
Edited by Moe145
05/27/2009 08:48 am
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Bryan1315's Avatar
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 Posted 05/27/2009  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
when I first got my 2.5 and 5 dollar Indians I thought they were the most beautiful coins I had ever held because I love the inverse design. You can find a well circulated coin with allot of the design left because its inverse (which makes these hard for me to grade) which is another plus in my book. I think one of the concerns was that diseases could be transferred easier on these coins because of the inverse design. The Banks also said the coins were to hard to stack and would be easy to counterfeit. There may be other concerns of the day but I think these were the main ones people were concerned about
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manila galleon trade's Avatar
Spain
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 Posted 05/27/2009  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manila galleon trade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nice
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cownas22's Avatar
United States
1055 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2009  10:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cownas22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice Coin. Love the Gold Indian Series
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JohnnyDJersey's Avatar
United States
95 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2009  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnnyDJersey to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
beautiful :)
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echizento's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 05/27/2009  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice.
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Moe145's Avatar
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 Posted 05/27/2009  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the History directly from our own Forum: (upper left on the Coin Forum Navigation Menu, US Coin History))


Quote:
The Saint-Gaudens double eagle (or $20 gold piece) is frequently acclaimed as the single most beautiful coin in American history. A case can be made, however, that two smaller U.S. gold coins from the same historical period are really much more innovative and daring. And, at the time they made their first appearance, they were also quite a bit more controversial. These two coins are the Indian Head quarter and half eagles or, in layman's terms, the Indian Head $2.50 and $5 gold pieces, respectively.
At the start of the 20th century, the life expectancy of the average American was less than 50 years. But the four gold coins then being issued by Uncle Sam had all been around without a major design change for more than 50 years. Three, in fact, had carried the same design, a portrait of Miss Liberty wearing a coronet, for more than 60 years.

Clearly, it was time for a change, and in 1901 the groundwork was laid for that change when Theodore Roosevelt succeeded to the presidency upon the assassination of William McKinley. The restless, dynamic Roosevelt was a quintessential agent of change, taking a personal interest and stamping his imprint upon the entire gamut of national life including U.S. coinage.

It was Roosevelt who arranged for famed sculptor Augustus Saint-Gaudens to redesign the double eagle and eagle (or $10 gold piece), and he basked in reflected glory when the stunning new coins debuted to rave reviews in 1907. He then gave his personal blessing to redesigning the two remaining gold coins the following year.

The Indian Head quarter eagle and its larger companion, the half eagle, stand out from all the rest of United States coinage because their relief is incuse: instead of being raised above the surface and protected by a rim, the designs and the lettering are sunken in a plane that is uniformly flat.

The concept for such coins came from a Boston physician and art lover named William Sturgis Bigelow, who happened to be a close friend of Teddy Roosevelt's. Bigelow's interest apparently had been stimulated by Egyptian relief's in the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, and although there was no modern precedent for the use of this technique in producing coins, he and Roosevelt both thought the notion had merit.

Another prominent Bostonian, sculptor Bela Lyon Pratt, got the assignment of fashioning designs. Unlike Saint-Gaudens who had come up with different designs for the double eagle and eagle, Pratt provided identical portraits for both of the smaller coins, but their dignity and strength amply justify this added exposure.

The obverse depicts a realistic-looking Indian brave in a war bonnet, with the date, 13 stars and the motto LIBERTY forming a circle around this central device. The reverse shows an eagle in repose, perched upon fasces and an olive branch, the intertwined symbols of preparedness and peace. Through judicious sizing and placement, Pratt succeeded in incorporating four different inscriptions on this side, (UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, E PLURIBUS UNUM, IN GOD WE TRUST and the statement of value) without causing the coin to seem unbalanced, cluttered or cramped.

The public of 1908 received the coin with mixed feelings. Although many appreciated the design's artistic merits, others immediately found fault. Some felt neither the Indian nor the eagle were properly represented, while others questioned the coin's ability to stack properly. Inevitably, the incusing of the design elements, being unfamiliar, also stirred criticism. Philadelphia coin dealer Samuel H. Chapman found it particularly objectionable, warning President Roosevelt that the "sunken design" would lead to a multitude of problems, including counterfeiting and even illness (he maintained that the recessed areas would become clogged with filth and convey disease). The president remained unshakable, however, in his support for the coins.

Indian Head quarter eagles were issued annually from 1908 through 1915. At that point, the Mint suspended their production for a decade; when it resumed in 1925, the coins were struck for five more years before the series ended in 1929, one of many victims of that year's Wall Street crash. As the depression took hold, what little gold came into the Mint was used for production of double eagles. With the cessation of gold coinage and the Great Recall of 1934, the quarter eagle would not return.

With just 15 different date-and-mint combinations (12 issues from the Philadelphia Mint and three from Denver), the series is one of the smallest in U.S. coinage, making a complete set attainable for many collectors despite the relatively high cost of buying anything made of gold. Its affordability is enhanced by the fact that only one coin, the 1911-D, is notably scarce; at 55,680, it's the only coin with a mintage of less than 240,000. The Denver mintmark can be found on the reverse, to the left of the arrowheads. Relatively small numbers of matte proofs were made in every year from 1908 through 1915, but not in the final five years. The flat matte finish of the proofs proved unpopular with collectors of the day, and many remained unsold, to later be melted by the Mint.

Being recessed, the design elements on Indian Head quarter eagles are protected from excessive wear. At the same time, this complicates the grading of these coins, since the patterns of normal wear differ from those of raised-relief coins. Critical areas for detecting traces of wear are the Indian's cheekbone and headdress feathers and the shoulder of the eagle's left wing. Although these coins are relatively plentiful in grades up to Mint State-64, a sharp drop-off occurs above that level and very few examples exist in grades of Mint State-66 and above. Counterfeits of many dates exist, and some are very deceiving. Any questionable piece should be authenticated.

The Indian Head quarter eagle may not be quite as magnificent as the Saint-Gaudens coinage, but it has its fair share of admirers and has long since overcome its early criticism.
Edited by Moe145
05/27/2009 3:49 pm
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ratman4762's Avatar
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 Posted 05/27/2009  8:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ratman4762 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I like the indian series myself!
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johnthebaptist576's Avatar
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 Posted 05/28/2009  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnthebaptist576 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
very nice coin
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daviscfad's Avatar
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 Posted 05/28/2009  12:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daviscfad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
congrats on your purchase Moe! very nice coin you have
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Moe145's Avatar
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 Posted 05/28/2009  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you to all for your kind words!

It's nice to see this Forum is for all collectors, beginning, middle and end, and all are congratulatory to each coin acquisition anyone has! I'm happy to be here!

This Forum ROCKS!
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
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 Posted 05/28/2009  12:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Numismatics is kinda like athletic endeavor - someone will always be working at a different level, and nobody "wins" everything. It's an aspect of good sportsmanship to appreciate the efforts of others, even if they sometimes may exceed your own.

There are one heck of a lot of good sports at CCF.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 05/28/2009  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well the "controversial" aspect has been pretty well covered. The engraving style was radically different (and it is sunken relief, not incuse). "they won't stack" (A charge leveled against almost every new coin back then.), to the supposed poor rendition of the indian. (It was said by the critics that the depiction showed a sickly individual not the healthy specimens people had come to expect. The "Healthy specimens" these critics were used to were depictions of caucasions wearing indian bonnets, or in some cases indians from eastern tribes. But the angular almost gaunt look seen on the coins is an accurate depiction of a plains indian. The hot dry climate tends to produce that look. See images of caucasions from the thirties who lived through the dust bowl years out west. They have that same look to them. Anyway Pratt said the model was healthy andin his prime, not sickly in any way.) And of course there was the claim that the sunken areas would catch and hold dirt and germs causing the coins to spread disease and contagion. But since the coins didn't really travel hand to hand that much and since gold also has some self-sterilization properties this wasn't ever a problem either.

The stacking clain was somewhat justified. Regular coins whe stacked rest on their rims far from the central high points and that distance adds stability. On the Pratt Indian coins that rim s replaced by the field which is braoder and right in close to the central high points. This makes stacks more wobbly and liable to fall over.
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Moe145's Avatar
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 Posted 05/28/2009  5:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Moe145 wrote:


Quote:
Can anyone explain the controversy behind this coin? (C'mon Conder101! I KNOW you know!)


Thank you Sir!

Again, another thoughtful and insightful response. I always enjoy your answers!
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JayDon62's Avatar
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138 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2009  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JayDon62 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow what a beautiful coin/design!

What is wrong with designers today? Does anyone like the c*r*a*p designs coming out today, especially the new Lincoln coins. Truly awful to my non artistic eye
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okie-colin's Avatar
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 Posted 05/29/2009  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okie-colin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only classic US coin with the incuse design. I think the quarter and half eagle Indian are two of my favorite US coins. In completing my Dansco gold page they were the first two that I purchased. They have a real classic look to them. Your's is a beauty.
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