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What Is This Discoloring Caused By?

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 Posted 06/07/2025  12:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add floyd5175 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
(See attached) I'm considering buying this coin, but I'm concerned by what may have caused this bluish discoloration. It doesn't bother me cosmetically, but if there was a chemical cleaning agent applied to the coin, then I may pass.

Any ideas what causes this to happen? Does this discoloration hurt value? Anything concerns I'm missing about this discoloring?

What-Is-This-Discoloring-Caused-By?
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 Posted 06/07/2025  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samoth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the coin world, it's called toning, and it's considered a positive by most (but not all) people.

More properly, it's called tarnish.

All ancient coins that aren't nearly black in color have been cleaned, and yours is no exception. It likely sat in a coin tray for some years after it was cleaned (probably dipped), and the new surfaces developed the toning you see in the protected area.
Edited by samoth
06/07/2025 4:38 pm
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 Posted 06/08/2025  01:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually that looks pretty nice.
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 Posted 06/08/2025  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add floyd5175 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So if I were to buy the coin it would NOT be recommended to try to remove the "tarnish"? IF I wanted to remove the tarnish, how is it done?
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 Posted 06/08/2025  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Marv65 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Toning does represent damage. I do not recommend that it be removed though because the only way to do it is to remove the "toned" metal, which means removing part of the coin's surface

You can always try "MS70 coin cleaner" if you want to try to remove it. But you always take a chance on ruining the coin when you mess with it.
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 Posted 06/08/2025  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samoth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So if I were to buy the coin it would NOT be recommended to try to remove the "tarnish"?


I wouldn't recommend it if you intend to sell it at some point.

Some people (like me) abhor brightly-cleaned surfaces. It's hard to know for certain what the newly-exposed surfaces will do over time. (This is more a concern with billon, e.g., medieval hammered coins.)


Quote:
IF I wanted to remove the tarnish, how is it done?


If you want something bright & shiny, most people just dip it in acid. Not everyone likes that freshly-dipped look, though. It can also cause serious damage if you don't knw exactly what you're doing.

Keep in mind that the entire coin has toning. You won't just remove the reds & blues -- you'll remove the darker rose colored toning throughout the surfaces. It will look altered & fake.

I'm curious why you want to chemically alter an historic artifact. Are you a Morgan collector, or into moderns where "blast white" is considered a positive attribute?
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 Posted 06/09/2025  08:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is an attractive example, so it should be left alone.
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 Posted 06/09/2025  08:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with jbuck. This piece has much character the way it is.
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 Posted 06/09/2025  3:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add floyd5175 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I appreciate the feedback and sound advice. I'm still very early in the ancient coin collecting hobby and still learning all the jargon. Personally, I would hesitate to buy a cleaned coin and would likely never alter a coin to get a more "desirable" finish. I guess my question was more of a backhanded way of learning what is good and what is bad "patina" or "toning."

The term "toning" kinda sounds like a euphemism a coin dealer would use to justify a particular finish in order to sell a coin. Maybe I'm just too cynical.
Edited by floyd5175
06/09/2025 3:54 pm
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 Posted 06/09/2025  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add samoth to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I appreciate the feedback and sound advice. I'm still very early in the ancient coin collecting hobby and still learning all the jargon. Personally, I would hesitate to buy a cleaned coin and would likely never alter a coin to get a more "desirable" finish. I guess my question was more of a backhanded way of learning what is good and what is bad "patina" or "toning."

The term "toning" kinda sounds like a euphemism a coin dealer would use to justify a particular finish in order to sell a coin. Maybe I'm just too cynical.


My advice would be to buy auction catalogs that focus on ancients, which can often be had for cheap in bulk. This can give you a good sampling of many coins: the range of what they look like, the prices, and what the cataloguers say about the coins (good or bad). Alternatively, you could set up searches on a site like NumisBids and save stuff you find of interest for comparison over time.

Silver tarnishes over time, especially over 1500+ years. Unless an ancient is nearly black in color, it was cleaned at some point -- perhaps by a museum involved with a find. Some people desire the blast white look, some desire dark toning, and some pursue colorful toning; good & bad are often in the eye of the beholder. However, toning can act as a protective shield of sorts -- something recently cleaned may turn ugly after you buy it, and there's no way to predict whether that will happen.

At some point, the word "cleaning" became synonymous with "dipping in acid." True cleaning -- conservation & preservation activities -- is an integral part of ownership. The extent to which it's needed depends on the composition & how fresh the coin's surfaces are. You shouldn't need to do much with ancients compared to medievals or more modern copper alloys, though.

There are a lot of euphemisms utilized by dealers to sell coins. You're not cynical at all to recognize that many people are out there with the sole purpose of exchanging their product for your money. Learning the language is another reason I'm a fan of auction catalogs.
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 Posted 06/09/2025  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add floyd5175 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the NumisBids link. I wasn't aware of this auction website.
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