Washington & Independence Token 1783

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Author	Replies: 5 / Views: 942
Buffalo soldat Valued Member New Zealand 188 Posts	Posted 06/15/2025 12:15 am I make this a draped bust, with button. Is that fair to say? I'm thinking maybe Fine-12 condition? First one of these in my collection, so I'm a little out of my depth. I did look at them on PCGS as well as initial ID in the Red Book. Opinions welcome. Thanks in advance. Do not read this sentence. Edited by Buffalo soldat 06/15/2025 02:55 am Report this Post to the Staff

westcoin Pillar of the Community United States 9792 Posts	Posted 06/18/2025 12:18 am I'd say Fine is correct on the grade, but is that a rim ding at 7:00 on the reverse? If so that will take the grade down, for me at least, rim damage is one thing I really try to keep out of my own collections. Only distracting scratches or graffiti is worse in my opinion. The reverse is not as nice as the obverse on this one, but the whole reason to have it is the Obverse so that makes it a touch better the damage doesn't show on the obverse side when displayed. EAC Net grade 12/7 "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 Edited by westcoin 06/18/2025 12:18 am Report this Post to the Staff
Buffalo soldat Valued Member New Zealand 188 Posts	Posted 06/18/2025 02:29 am Thanks @westcoin. Yes, fair call on the reverse. Definitely less good even before the big ding. Interesting to me that they were so closely mimicking exiting British coinage, but I guess that was the norm, so not a shock. This piece was part of a grouping I was after, so it was a nice side piece. Do not read this sentence. Report this Post to the Staff
westcoin Pillar of the Community United States 9792 Posts	Posted 06/19/2025 4:49 pm Buffalo soldat - If you are interested PM me and I will be happy to send you a little article that George Fuld did on these pieces way back in 1964 in the ANA's Numismatist magazine, and another small booklet printing by Robert Vlack, both have decent photos, they are in PDF format and show the various design changes made with some of the varieties as well. One thing interesting is, as you mentioned, they seem to mimic the British coins of the era on the reverse, yet none were known to be struck in Britain, unlike so many other Washington coins and medals of the time. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 Report this Post to the Staff
jbuck Moderator United States 187486 Posts	Posted 06/19/2025 4:51 pm Looks like a decent example to me, but like you, I am a little out of my depth. Coin Collector Since 1978 Avatar Old Avatar 7070 Eisenhower Australia Canada World CCF Members on eBay CCF eBay Search Engine Report this Post to the Staff
Sap Moderator Australia 16805 Posts	Posted 06/19/2025 9:53 pm Quote: One thing interesting is, as you mentioned, they seem to mimic the British coins of the era on the reverse, yet none were known to be struck in Britain, unlike so many other Washington coins and medals of the time. The "United States" die, or at least a copy of that die, was present in Britain in the 1850s. W.J. Taylor produced tokens with this exact design for the 1851 Great Exhibition in London. Coin World article. Taylor then coped the die, removed the Liberty Cap (but kept the empty pole), changed the legend from "UNITED STATES" to "AUSTRALIA" and made more tokens. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces47667.html The three tokens, side by side: Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis Report this Post to the Staff
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