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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,308 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
You are picturing what's very likely (judging from the wreath over the D) a 1921P VAM41, a Top 100 VAM and the most striking example of both die pitting and polishing in the series. It isn't particularly uncommon, even in MS condition, but it's a spectacular VAM. http://www.coincommunity.com/coin_f...ar_vam41.asp |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
14454 Posts |
Edited by Bryan1315
04/12/2006 7:47 pm
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Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
No offense my friend, but boy, it sure looks like the reverse of this coin was very professionally whizzed veeeerrryyy carefully, especially since the raised areas don't show the flow lines. Except in your second set of pics, you can see lines, heavy lines on 1 of the arrows. Since I am not that familiar with morgans per se, what exactly is the meaning of VAM, Variety A M ? And does that mean certain type of flow lines as you show on this pretty 1921 coin will be seen? Nice pics BTW..I don't think I would spend my money on grading with NGC with this guy, unless you want it back in a bodybag. I would instead send it to anacs and in case it IS judged to be cleaned/whizzed, at least it will be in a slab saying so IMHO. CiScO |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
VAM stands for the 2 guys that wrote the book on Morgan Varieties, Leroy C Van Allen & George Mallis there are thousands of varieties of just morgans and this one may look whizzed but its not it is just where the dies have been polished, if you look at the link superdave posted you will see the description of the same kind of error. And this coin wouldnt come back in a body bag because it is a mint error not post mint
Edited by Bryan1315
04/12/2006 9:10 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Here is what the comprehensive catalog and Encyclopedia Of Morgan & Peace dollars says about the VAM-1A : Pitted die around the eagles tail feathers and center of wreath with many hundreds of fine polishing marks on lower part of the die. since you know nothing about morgans I will show you a picture from the book of die polishing on the 1921 morgan this is a 1B but has polish lines like the 1A does except these are more on the top instead of the bottom of the dies  Edited by Bryan1315
04/12/2006 9:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4589 Posts |
morgans are a hard series to collect for all of those reasons, and you have some that look like they have wear but just were not struck well, you really need allthe books on morgans
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
yeah morgans is a coin if you are into vams you have to have a book to go through because there are so many varieties its hard to know what to look for, and there are more being found every day it seems
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Forum Kid
Kuwait
1523 Posts |
Woah!
Looks like Very Harshly Cleaned!
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by thekidcollector
Woah!
Looks like Very Harshly Cleaned!
That's why it's such a popular VAM. VAM1A was incorporated into VAM41 because it was discovered that they were one and the same, in different die states. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I know it looks like its cleaned thats why I posted this thread, because if it was on the raised areas I would say cleaned also but it just being in the fields then I thought just maybe this was the one that had polished dies and has these markings, but it is definatelt a VAM-1A or 41 which ever ya wanna call it because of the marks on the top arrow and all them polish lines in the bottom fields. That is also why I asked the question, because you have to be very knowledgable in morgans to know the difference on these things. I understand that all the non morgan collectors think its harshley cleaned because of the way it looks but its not it is one of the TOP 100 Morgans to have because couldnt have many been made like this because the dies wouldnt have lasted very long before they failed because of all the polishing the dies have had
Edited by Bryan1315
04/13/2006 6:09 pm
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2684 Posts |
Without having the Morgan in hand for an upclose and personal look, I would have initially stated after a brief glance that it appeared harshly and crudely cleaned, but after a little investigation, I'm definitely inclined to go with the opinion that this is indeed a VAM-1A (or 41; PCGS attributes it as VAM-1A http://www.pcgs.com/VarietyFAQ.htm [download the PDF list]). The fact that only the reverse is affected influences me a lot; I do not see why anyone would whiz a Morgan on one side only without doing the other side. Similarly, it's almost always the obverse which gets the most attention in any instance. Continuing with this logic pattern, I just don't see someone abrasively polishing only the coin's field without similarly polishing the devices (arrowheads excepted). And given the high luster of the obverse, I don't see why someone would have felt it necessary to spiff up the reverse. I certainly CAN see some drone at the mint scraping the rust off a reverse die with a pocket knife before putting the die into the press. Of course, submission to ANACS or PCGS for attribution would settle this one way or another; they have far more experience with VAMs than do I. Fred |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
It is in the pile that is going to NGC to see what they say about it, they also attribute it as a 1A instead of 41. I will go another step to tell all the non morgan something else, if this were any other date besides a 1921 I would be inclined to say it was some foprm of harshley cleaning that happened, but it being a 1921 this definately happened at the mint before and that was why I asked the question for help on this specific coin. It is documented that this happened on the 1921 in all the morgan books andthat is another reason I beleive what superdave and morganfred said about it being a VAM-1A. But when I get it back from NGC I will show you all what they attributed it as or if it was bodybagged. Thanks for the help with this and we will just have to wait and see, I have to build up the bank account a lil before I send it in with the others because I have about 13 or 14 I need to send in and I just purchased a VAM-70 from Heritage and it depleted my monthly spending limit, but when I do send it off I will update it and will do it again when it gets back
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,308 |
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Posted 04/12/2006 7:40 pm
