| Author |
Replies: 16 / Views: 1,603 |
|
New Member
United States
14 Posts |
Hello all, Just picked this up online, and cant wait ti see it in hand. This might be my newest favorite. Very little online concerning these.. Apparently this was a 1st place prize for a French yacht club (race?) Anyone have any insight? 26.66 tot weight 24.44g (.7959 oz) of 22 karat gold 
|
|
|
|
Moderator
 United States
187507 Posts |
Very nice! 
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10472 Posts |
Edited by Marv65 10/10/2025 7:40 pm
|
|
New Member
 United States
14 Posts |
I think they came in silver, bronze, and gold.
I'm not sure if they were awarded the medals cause it was a boat race.. or what
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Portugal
655 Posts |
You may have been deceived if that medal was sold as gold. It is most likely gilded silver. That was the common thing for gold prizes in that time. Gold was expensive, as it is now.
Check the side of the coin. Free if from the plastic if necessary. It should have the mark of the Paris mint stamped there and also the word for the metal. This was done to avoid frauds.
It would be most unusual for one of these prize medals to be gold. Looking at the size and weight it is very unlikely to be solid gold unless it is very thin. Hold your payment if you can.
|
|
New Member
 United States
14 Posts |
I'm pretty sure NGC would know if it was gold gilded or plated, and would have noted it as such (gilded, gilt, bronze, silver, etc.)
On NGC website the numbers and photos match up, so there's zero doubt its legit.
Thanks for heads up though.
Edited by TNHighwayman 10/10/2025 11:00 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
The yacht and it's owner and who sailed on it are long since gone.
As such this medal becomes the permanent memorial of the event, the yacht, it's owner, and who sailed on it.
|
|
New Member
 United States
14 Posts |
I found this exact piece on Worthpoint (Who I was unfamiliar with)..
But they require a $ubscription to see the sold price.
Does any one have a subscription who can look up past sold price for me?
Thanks
Edited by TNHighwayman 10/10/2025 10:17 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Portugal
655 Posts |
If that medal was pure gold for the diameter and weight given it could not be thicker than 1,16 mm. Less because of the metal taken into the high reliefs.
It is not the big medal listed in numista. But I think this small one is also unlikely to be gold. Even alloyed.
Compare to a double eagle that is only 2 mm smaller. The double eagle is much heavier and over 2 mm thick. This medal to be in gold will have to be the thickness of a 2 1/2 dollar indian. With much larger size and high relief using part of the metal. It would be too thin for a practical prize medal. Possible if done with care. But I would call the Paris Mint for malpractice if they did it.
Edited by jecz79 10/11/2025 10:21 am
|
|
New Member
 United States
14 Posts |
So NGC has mislabeled it? Extremely unlikely.
When I get it, I will put it on my Sigma, then have it Xray gun analyzed.
Then we will know for sure.
But I think you will find than NGC and PGGS don't label things as gold that aren't.
That is the entire purpose of NGC and PCGS.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11880 Posts |
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com
|
|
Moderator
 United States
15384 Posts |
 to the CCF Quote: But I think you will find than NGC and PGGS don't label things as gold that aren't. That is the entire purpose of NGC and PCGS. Both firms make plenty of mistakes on their labels and it's common for members of the CCF to regularly point them out. I suspect that with this medal labeled as gold you are about to provide us with the most recent example of a TPG label error. 
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
735 Posts |
Quote: I found this exact piece on Worthpoint (Who I was unfamiliar with)..
But they require a $ubscription to see the sold price.
Does any one have a subscription who can look up past sold price for me?
Thanks The one on worthpoint sold for $2650 Sep 27 2023. Gold melt per ounce was around $1900 at the time of sale.
I've been collecting for a couple years... Favorite Coin's are Standing Liberty quarters, Working on my type set | Coffee, Corvettes, Coins & the CCF what could be better?
Edited by Jakes Coins 10/11/2025 2:26 pm
|
|
New Member
 United States
14 Posts |
Thanks Jakes!
While it's true that the grading companies make mistakes, mislabeling with the completely wrong metal seems extremely unlikely.
If this isn't gold, this will go down in history as the biggest F up in NGC grading history.
I guess we shall see.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Portugal
655 Posts |
French made prize medals are a mess for collectors. It is a brave collector who gets into those. I have a few and at least two were incorrectly sold as silver but were electroplated silver. One was identified on the edge, CUIVRE. The other was not. Specific density test confirmed it was not silver. If a medal is not identified on the edge you must research the press of the time for reports about the prize, sometimes it says how many medals struck in which metals. Or you must test and verify the medal you have. Many but not all prize medals of the second half of the nineteenth century and beginnings of the twentieth were made using common designs in the Paris mint. There were catalogues to pick the obverse and reverse from. Then the people placing the order also had to pick the metal, size, and surface treatment. So the same designs appear in medals of many different years, sizes and places. Making it even harder to find information about a particular medal. Napoleon III ordered the Paris mint to always identify the real mental of a medal on the edge because this was a problem then. It was very common to do the medals in a cheaper metal and then apply silver or gold with electroplating to do the silver and gold prizes. I am not saying that your medal cannot be gold. It can. But my calculations, you should do them yourself in case I made some mistake, make me believe that for that size and weight it would have to be unusually thin. To give you an idea about how hard in can be to find information about a medal. This one is signed F. VERNON. Frederic de Vernon. It makes sense. Looking at the style of his work he did french realism and then art noveau. This is art noveau. A french state museum lists one of these medals in its collection and attributes it to an eighteenth century artist: https://mnm.webmuseo.com/ws/musee-n...record/30592graveur : VERNON Edward (1684 - 1757) Completely wrong. If you are going to test be aware that the plating on these prize medals is usually thick. Specific gravity is the best nondestructive test.
Edited by jecz79 10/11/2025 6:17 pm
|
|
New Member
 United States
14 Posts |
Wow great info thanks. My Sigma Pro does specific gravity tests so I will be sure to do one.
Good grief I just bought a medal I thought was beautiful, and guaranteed gold since NGC graded.
I didn't anticipate this can of worms.
|
| |
Replies: 16 / Views: 1,603 |