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Die Deterioration Vs Die Damage

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Pete2226's Avatar
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 Posted 10/19/2025  10:19 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Sharing a work in progress....

CRITIQUE AND COMMENTS WELCOME!

Die Deterioration VS DIE DAMAGE
For several years, I have been noticing canceled dies, originally offered by the mint to the public in 1997, that have been presented for sale in the secondary market. These dies are accompanied by Certificates of Authenticity issued by the US Mint containing detailed information about the dies: press types, mint facility, dates of service, press number, number of strikes at retirement and reason for retirement. I have been entering the collected information from these certificates into a spreadsheet and currently have entries from over 100 certificates. The various reasons for die retirement (Piece Out Engraving, Cracked, Clash, Worn, Damaged, Starburst) led me to seek a more adequate understanding of the definitions of Die Deterioration vs Die Damage.

I have found that a definition of Die Deterioration that includes ALMOST ANY CAUSE for a worsening condition of the die, if it is involved in the work/use of the die, is decidedly unhelpful. These definitions usually state that any degradation of a die during the process of striking coins is Die Deterioration, but not HOW OR WHY it happened! It is so general that an unknown number of errors may be attributed to Die Deterioration! (Would there be any errors from the striking process that are NOT Die Deterioration with such a broad definition?)

In discussing die degradation/deformation I maintain that there is a difference, during the striking process, between Die Deterioration and DIE DAMAGE as far as the cause of such die degradation/deformation is concerned.
I am suggesting that a definition which simply terminates with "use and wear" causing Die Deterioration is incomplete, since it does not reference specific causes, nor does it reference inherent properties of the die steel and/or those properties' effects in influencing and guiding the deterioration.

I think that a targeted definition of Die Deterioration is far more useful. As I recall how I have used the term in the past, I return to the image I had in my mind (a felled tree trunk in the woods deteriorating away!) of what it means, and so I arrive at the following definition:

Die Deterioration IS AN UNWANTED MODIFICATION OF DIE SURFACE MORPHOLOGY DUE TO INTRINSIC CHARACTERISTICS OF THE DIE STEEL REACTING TO THE PRESSURE AND WEAR OF STRIKING.

These intrinsic characteristics are based on properties of the die steel, such as toughness, strength, shock resistance, hardness, wear resistance, and fatigue strength, among others. These properties influence and guide strain hardening effects, improper annealing effects, flow stress variability, and dislocation slip involvement in plastic deformation, as well as others.

Resulting examples of Die Deterioration may be: die cracks, die chips, radial flow, Die Deterioration Doubling, design berms, and design devouring die wear, among others.

DIE DAMAGE IS AN UNWANTED MODIFICATION, MOSTLY UNDER THE PRESSURE AND WEAR OF STRIKING, OF DIE SURFACE MORPHOLOGY DUE TO CONTACT WITH

• AN ANCILLARY COMPONENT OF THE COIN PRESS, (e.g. Feeder Fingers) OR

• A BYPRODUCT OF THE PLANCHET FEEDING/STRIKING PROCESS (e.g. metal particles/shavings) OR

• A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT CONTACTED DURING HAPHAZARD DIE HANDLING IN THE HUBBING, TOOLING, INSTALLATION PROCESS (e.g. Die Dents) OR

• AN OPPOSING DIE FROM A MALFUNCTION IN THE STRIKING PROCESS (e.g. Die Clashes, Ridge Rings)

I recognize that, while this list focuses on the primary source of the die degradation, properties of the die steel are still involved and supportive of the result.

****

DIE STEEL
The Mint uses Steel Alloy 52100 for small diameter Coins and Steel Alloy L6 for quarters and up. These Alloys have been in use since the 1970s and before that the standard W2 or equivalent die steels were used.

Coin dies are higher in the center (a convex die face) and the center of the die is the first area of the die that contacts a planchet, thus forcing metal outwards towards the rim. This movement begins at the molecular level and builds to fill the design recesses on the die. This action is identified as cold metal flow.

Unwanted cold metal flow extends beyond the devices and builds on the molecular movement and gradually becoming visible as the various examples mentioned above. The risk of unwanted cold metal flow is primarily dictated by a material's toughness, machinability, and microstructure. Alloy 52100 steel's high hardness and wear resistance make it more resistant to extraneous cold metal flow than the tougher, more machinable L6 steel. However, in Steel Alloy 52100, poorly managed machining can cause severe localized plastic deformation and surface damage. Steel Alloy L6 has lower wear resistance compared to 52100, and is more susceptible to adhesive wear resulting in microscopic material transfer and tearing of the surfaces.

52100 has higher risks of fracture or chipping compared to L6.

L6 is more susceptible to the formation of radial flow marks and other forms of deterioration mentioned above from die wear.


In both alloys (even more so in 52100 which is also used for bearings), variations in the heat treatment process of the dies that depart from specifications is most likely a primary factor in the onset of unwanted, extraneous, cold metal flow that results in Die Deterioration. Such variations may significantly alter the final properties of the alloys.


SUMMARY
Both Die Deterioration and Die Damage happen during the coining process from die preparation through a struck coin. Both involve wear and degradation of the die. The two have different points of origination during the striking process, but for almost all examples the striking chamber is the arena of the point of origin for both.

Die Damage originates from unwanted contact with an element or byproduct of the striking process.

Die Deterioration originates with properties of the die steel.


EXAMPLE
According to the definitions presented, STARBURST is Die Damage and RADIAL FLOW is Die Deterioration.





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CoinForMe's Avatar
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 Posted 10/19/2025  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinForMe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Die Damage originates from unwanted contact with an element or byproduct of the striking process.
Die Deterioration originates with properties of the die steel.

These lines are sufficient and are Spot-On!
Your study is fascinating. Please keep us posted on your future findings.
This is a picture of my 'Retired Die Set along with Paperwork', showing the reason for its retirement.
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 Posted 10/19/2025  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is a picture of my 'Retired Die Set along with Paperwork', showing the reason for its retirement.


Thank you! I will be adding this to my records!

Also I appreciate your comments!
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 Posted 10/19/2025  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dough101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Pete2226. Whether we like it or not, your approach to the situation opens up as a step for transparency. A cent that makes sense.

Your findings of: Die Deterioration, Die Deterioration Doubling Definition and Example.

1.) Current Definition of " Die Deterioration" includes almost any cause for a worsening condition of the die, which is involved in the work/use of the die; it is decidedly unhelpful. The current definition for " Die Deterioration" simplifies that ANY degradation of a die during the process of striking coins is defined as "Die Deterioration." But it is not the root cause of " Die Deterioration"

Argument: Why and how it occurred:

Your findings and Argument: The number of times during and after can influence the " Die Deterioration".

Your findings: "Wear and Tear" are not the root cause of "Die Deterioration. Suggested that " Die Deterioration" differentiation and aiming at the root cause will have a more respectable and positive impact on the overall quality control process.

Progress: Die Deterioration Definition: "Is an unwanted modification of the die surface morphology due to intrinsic characteristics of the die steel reacting to the pressure and wear of striking."

1.) Die Deterioration Sample: Such as strong possibilities will exhibit die cracks, die chips, and radial flaws. 2.) Die Deterioration Doubling Sample: Such as strong possibilities will exhibit design berms, design devouring die wear, and other unknown possibilities.

@pete2226 I have nothing else to say, but you are not leaving room for doubt. Keep us informed and continue sharing educational information; thank you.





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 Posted 10/19/2025  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dough101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I forgot one thing: I would want to see information about why and how "True double die" occurs, and why this is called "true double die.". Did the US MINT make this terminology?
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 Posted 10/19/2025  2:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I forgot one thing: I would want to see information about why and how "True double die" occurs, and why this is called "true double die.". Did the US MINT make this terminology?


Thanks for commenting!

I had not planned to include Hub Doubling since it does not occur during striking, and I am hesitant to call it "Damage," although it seems to meet my definition! It will have to be an exception! --> By the way, I did a quick search of all the Annual Reports and Biennial Reports of the US Mint and did not find one instance where they mention "Doubled Die"!
My other consideration is that the focus here is on errors, not varieties, so hub doubling is not included for that reason, either
.
I find that one of the problems with definitions is that they always seem to have exceptions!

One other type of Die Damage that may take place outside the striking chamber is Die Dents. I had my range of process for occurrences begin with die tool setting just for them, but you have helped me see I need more focus for that process and I am revising to indicate the striking chamber only as the arena for origination.

Edited by Pete2226
10/20/2025 09:42 am
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 Posted 10/19/2025  4:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Khromtau to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Pete, where did you find the information about what AISI/SAE (American Iron and Steel Institute and the Society of Automotive Engineers respectively) alloy the mint uses for their dies? I couldn't find it on the mint website. Thanks!

Part of my curiosity about this is I am currently taking a tool and die welding class at the local community college.

I will try and post my coin and die set later to help with your study. Thanks again!
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 Posted 10/19/2025  5:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
where did you find the information about what AISI/SAE (American Iron and Steel Institute and the Society of Automotive Engineers respectively) alloy the mint uses for their dies? I couldn't find it on the mint website. Thanks!


Over the years, I have been in touch with a numismatist who is a metallurgist and works for the company that supplies the steel.

I also may have seen the information in other sources. When I get back to my desktop tomorrow, I will check if I am remembering that correctly and if so, will let you know.
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 Posted 10/19/2025  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I happened to remember one source that mentions 52100. I will check notes on my computer tomorrow for others.



https://www.ikegroup.info/?page_id=840
Edited by Pete2226
10/19/2025 6:30 pm
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 Posted 10/19/2025  11:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Khromtau to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Pete2226! I was just curious. I find all the different alloys, what is in them, and how they are used interesting. Thanks again!

Here is my coin and die set for your records, it also appears to have suffered a collar clash in addition to those cracks.
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 Posted 10/20/2025  06:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here is my coin and die set for your records, it also appears to have suffered a collar clash in addition to those cracks.


Thanks for the images. I will add to my database! In reviewing over 100 die/certificate combinations, I have not seen a die so severely defaced! I see the evidence of a collar clash on the side view of the die. This is the first example I have seen from the "Certificate of Authenticity Series" where the remnants of damage are still visible!

As far as more resources for Die Steel information:
Check this site: https://www.numismaticnews.net/worl...ty-discovery

Appendix A in this paper I wrote in 2015 has a brief review of die steels, including their supplier.
https://conecaonline.org/rockwell-h...ncoln-cents/

I have not found any mention of Die Steel types in Annual Reports or Biennial Reports of the US Mint, although alternate types are mention in the metals study report: 2012 Biennial Report to the Congress, as well as the parent company of the supplier (they merged in 2012, I believe)>

For an EXCELLENT resource on general die steel understanding, check the Discussion of Die Steel Terminology and a Discussion of Die use and die failure in the first half of the 20th century by Roger Burdette in his book "from Mine to Mint." It deals with the first half of the 20th century but is important for our understanding of processes.

This paper does not pertain to US coins and Dies, but is interesting for its insight into some of the analytical tools available:
"Root cause analysis of coining tool failure with proposed solution to extend its service life" by Miroslava Tavodova, et.al., Engineering Failure Analysis, Volume 162, August 2024.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...630724004187

This paper does not pertain to coin/die use, but is interesting for its examination of die wear:
"Die wear in stamping of advanced high strength steels - Investigations on the effects of substrate material and hard-coatings" by Φmer Necati Cora, et.al., Tribology International, Volume 52, August 2012, Pages 50-60.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...679X12000709


Edited by Pete2226
10/20/2025 09:09 am
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 Posted 10/20/2025  09:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
EDITED my previous comment to add resources.
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 Posted 10/20/2025  10:48 am  Show Profile   Check -makecents-'s eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add -makecents- to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pete, you may want to take a look at this thread, as it may tie in with yours and you may be able to offer some input..

LINK https://goccf.com/t/484565
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 Posted 10/20/2025  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pete2226 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
makecents: Thanks for your comments! I think the Doubled Die portions of those references is not for this effort, since it is a variety and there is no evidence, that I know of, that its existence contributes to the degradation of the die.

I had not considered lathe lines. They may have no relation to my efforts either.
• They do not fit with my operative definitions.
• I have found no dies being retired because dies with lathe lines produced unacceptable coins for circulation.
• While their origin is debatable (cutting of die steel, trimming rotating bar stock, machining die stock before hubbing, inadequate polishing of the cone-shaped face of the unfinished working die, lapping after hubbing), their existence remains on the die due to inadequate die finishing/polishing.

An argument can be made that lathe rings do not contribute to the degradation of the die.

Thanks for mentioning them! It challenges my thinking!
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