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 Replies: 11 / Views: 3,865 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1151 Posts |
In my quest for a 1970 S small date Lincoln to complete my album, I have been watching for deals on ebay. While looking at some NGC graded coins, some are graded MS64 Rd while others are PF64 Rd. What makes the difference between Mint State and Proof State? In looking at price difference on Numismedia the MS coin is $2.80 less than the Proof coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
532 Posts |
proof is struck with different Dies
A proof is made with polished dies to give the fields of the coins a more mirror like surface.
Apples to oranges really if you are building sets, as proofs are different than regular strikes.
It is all in the beholder but me personally, I do not care for proof strikes. Like mentioned , JUST MY OPINION but they just dont hold the history to me like a good ole fashioned coin that has survived the test of time in MS condition.
I hope this helps, pardon if it is clouded with my own opinion. I am sure others with chime in.
-RFB
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1151 Posts |
I understand the difference in dies between Proofs and circulated coins, just don't understand the difference in grades ( MS / PF ) for a proof coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Are you saying you don't understand what 64 means as it applies to circulation strikes vs. proof strikes?
Or: Are you asking about the grading designation MS vs. PF? If it's the grading designation; MS means "A circulation strike with no circulation wear" and PF means "A proof strike without regard to wear".
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3098 Posts |
I don't know if this will answer it, but PF has the same scale as MS/AU/XF/F/G. If you have a heavily circulated proof, it could be possible it will get a PF45 designation.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1151 Posts |
Let me ask it this way; aren't coins with an "S" mint mark proof coins? I thought coins struck in San Francisco were all proof coins struck with proof dies, am I wrong?
If they are proof coins shouldn't they be graded on a proof (PF scale) ie PF64 as opposed to a mint state scale (MS) ie MS64?
I also understand that proof coins can be circulated, so is that when they are graded on a MS scale, MS60 - MS70, instead of a PF scale, PF60 - PF70?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6381 Posts |
San Francisco Lincoln cents were struck for proof sets (PF or PR grades) and for general circulation (MS grades) from 1968 through 1974. Starting in 1975, all S-mint cents were proof strikes.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1151 Posts |
Ok, now we are getting somewhere. I did not know that San Fran produced both proof and circ. coins in those dates. So, in order to tell the difference between the two, it's all about the finess and depth of detail correct?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Quote:
I also understand that proof coins can be circulated, so is that when they are graded on a MS scale, MS60 - MS70, instead of a PF scale, PF60 - PF70?
Coins that are minted as proofs should always be graded as proofs (PR or PF). They use the same scale as circulation strikes (1-70). A coin graded as PR40 (or PF40) is called an "impaired proof" meaning it has wear from (most likely) circulation. Re your question about determining the type of strike: The obvious tip off for most is a mirror-like finish in the fields. In the absence of mirrored surfaces, die markers are often used. Some early proofs had a matte finish but that's another story in itself. |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
I believe that a Proof coin is also different from a Mint State in regards that it not only has a mirror finish to it, it also has sharper details to it, i.e. lettering and date. Then there is the whole Cameo effect thing to consider,Cameo-Ultra Cameo-Deep Ultra Cameo. Note; not all proofs are made at the San Francisco Mint either. John1  Edited by John1
07/14/2009 07:48 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1151 Posts |
Note; not all proofs are made at the San Francisco Mint either. Quote:
Gold and some silver ones are made at West Point. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4867 Posts |
The San Francisco Mint did produce circulating coins in that time frame. If I get them in my change I put them aside.
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Replies: 11 / Views: 3,865 |
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Posted 07/13/2009 10:17 pm
