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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,933 |
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
Picked this Morgan up recently. I found it in an antique store and figured for the price, why not. Even at the antique store, I was a little concerned of the color (but I still bought it  , I was intrigued I guess). A drop test (with another Morgan) sounded good as if it was at least 90% silver. I have since weighed this coin and it came up short at 25.80g as opposed to the genuine weight of 26.73g So, here she is. It has an approx. 25-30 degree rotated reverse. https://www.rotateddies.com does not have it listed in the census.   swcoin.ecrater.com
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Rest in Peace
United States
1729 Posts |
I'm no expert, but I don't see the wear marks I'd expect in a coin that obviously isn't AU or better, other than one mark in Liberty's eyebrow. The date numerals appear uneven. Overall, it just looks "soft" to my untrained eyes.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
532 Posts |
That is almost a full gram. The weight does cause the ears to come up. I do think that since it is an 1880s it is not going to be as big of a target for counterfeiting but I wouldn't put anything past them. It does look to have been cleaned at some point.
Have you whipped out the scope and checked it against the VAMs? That should help determining if it is legitimate or not.
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Valued Member
United States
224 Posts |
I believe that it is a counterfeit!
On the Obverse: The letters in "E PLURIBUS UNUM" appear too tall, thus to me the "I" sits to deep in between the Wheat Tassels and the right foot of the "R" also sits too low in respect to the Wheat Tassel to it's right and too close to the Wheat leaf hanging across the top of Miss Liberty's crown. Quite a few of the Stars are oriented wrong with their' star points pointing in directions other than towards the Center of the coin and some of the Stars lack conformity (i.e. irregular in shape and some sides and points not the same as the sides and points on the opposite side of the Stars).
On the Reverse: The "O" in ONE appears higher than the "N" and the spacing between the letters is not equal. The vertical bars in both "L's" in DOLLAR appear tilted more Counter-Clockwise than normal. Also, there is a weird triangular shaped indentation on the Eagle's upper leg near the point where it meets the Eagle's body and it does not appear to be Post Mint damage.
That is my take on the coin but I could be wrong!
Frank
Edited by huntsman53
08/28/2009 1:38 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1219 Posts |
Counterfeit, I don't think so. Worn enough to explain the weight difference, I don't know. Letters appear normal to me.    If this is a counterfeit, it's a good one, and if the price was right a nice addition to any collection. Forgot the date.  If my memory serves me right, it wasn't until around 1883 that they the first three digits on the die so varying spaces and heights were a norm. Plus the dirt build up is not helping the photo any. Edited by MorgansRmine
08/28/2009 08:09 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
it definitely doesn't look right to me, it could be the lighting but it has the color of a cast copy to me. The only reason I am not saying I am sure its counterfeit is because I don't see the normal casting marks in the dimples and other places but I would have to do some studying on that coin if it were mine under a microscope looking for air bubbles or seams. It may just be the date/MM of the coin also that makes me suspicious because just about every 1880-S Morgan I have seen were super high grade coins, but I am sure some of them was bound to circulate. Either way I would have to study it to see if it were mine. A bad dip could cause the color also but its definitely not an original skin on the coin because of the color
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Valued Member
United States
224 Posts |
Like I said, I could be wrong and probably am wrong! If you factor everything else out, I still don't think that Stars are correct in orientation and conformity. This and the weight being well off normal, would definitely throw flags up for me! I guess the next thing to do, is to count the reeds! I don't know what the figures are for an 1880-S but there are references with the numbers.
Frank
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
Thanks for the comments. My primary concern was the weight. I have a 100 degree rotated reverse Morgan that most thought was a counterfeit even though the weight was right on. Turns out, PCGS certified it as genuine. This coin has definite signs of a past cleaning. I don't own a microscope but under a 10X and 14X, it does not appear to have signs of casting but I could be wrong. I will have to take it to the next show and examine it under a microscope ;-)
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Valued Member
80 Posts |
Looks real to me but I maybe wrong.
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New Member
Canada
19 Posts |
regardless if it's a counterfeit or not (which I don't think it is), it's a cool coin to have. if it is fake, it still looks old so you should hold on to it whether it's fake or not.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Is it just me or do the second 8 and the 0 on the subject coin appear to lean slightly to the left, especially as compared to the date posted by MorgansRmine? The dates were punched into the die with a four digit logotype punch. There should be no variation of spacing or tilt of the digits from one coin to another.
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
I've decided to TPG this guy so we shall soon see  swcoin.ecrater.com
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10982 Posts |
Let us know what happens. That coin is at least EF so the weight is very low for a genuine coin.
The color looks "off" but other than that I don't see anything obvious. It would seem odd to copy a common date but it has happened.
My guess is that this coin had a light planchet, say 26.3g at striking, and wore down from there to 25.8g.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Even at that late period the planchets were still being weighed to make sure they were within tolerance. The weight was to be 26.73 grams +/- .09 grams. I can't see them letting a coin that light, even 26.3 grams, pass. And the coin does not have near enough wear to account for almost a full gram in lost weight.
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,933 |
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Posted 08/28/2009 12:05 am
