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 Replies: 21 / Views: 3,682 |
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Valued Member
United States
206 Posts |
3 where ICG
5 where ANACS
51 where NGC
There where no upgrades
2 NGC and 1 IGC did not cross
1 67 FT = 66FB
17 66 FT = 8 66FB 5 65FB 2 MS66 2 MS65
3 70PR = 1 69 1 68 1 65
2 69 PR = 2 68
9 68 PR = 4 68 3 67 1 66 1 65
4 67 PR = 3 67 1 66
1 66 PR = 1 65
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Valued Member
 United States
206 Posts |
FORGOT THE MS COINS
3 where ICG
5 where ANACS
51 where NGC
There where no upgrades
2 NGC and 1 IGC did not cross
1 67 FT = 66FB
17 66 FT = 8 66FB 5 65FB 2 MS66 2 MS65
2 68MS = 2 67MS
8 67MS = 5 67MS 4 66MS
8 66MS = 4 66MS 4 65MS
3 70PR = 1 69 1 68 1 65
2 69 PR = 2 68
9 68 PR = 4 68 3 67 1 66 1 65
4 67 PR = 3 67 1 66
1 66 PR = 1 65
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Valued Member
United States
213 Posts |
It seems to me that trying to get an upgrade on coins is a rippoff. The exact same coin but you get to charge more for it.
I don't think you will get much sympathy.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1931 Posts |
I don't understand really why it would be a rip off. I have been curious myself what would happen if I sent my best coin to more than one grader. just to see how differently they grade. I would really love it though if they included notes with the grade to explain why it maybe came down a grade difference from the first grader. Would definitely help me with learning the higher ms grades.
I am curious now, I guess PCGS is the strictest grader?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1745 Posts |
Just so I have this straight-- The first column (i.e. left of =)is the original grade as you submitted to PCGS. And these original grades came from NGC, ANACS and ICG. The second column is the grade returned by PCGS. In every case PCGS was equal to or less than the grade determined by the other TPG. What type of coins were these? Thanks for the interesting experiment. |
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Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
Now here is a great topic.. I have done the same but sent the same coin on 5 seperate occasions to the same grader.. heres the best part for 50.00 ( the cost) it was worth it.. It got 5 different grades from the same place..... So I have said many times.. WHO ARE THEY TO TELL US THE GRADE..If they cannot grade the same coin and get the same results then somethings wrong .. No matter what it is ONLY THEIR OPINION in the end...As far as I'm concerned it was a success on your part, now you get to see first hand that no one has the same method of grading.. Not ICCS <CCCS NGC< PCGS ICG >>>>.. And for 1 firm to down grade , upgrade , or for that matter even change another firms opinion seems like they beleive their method is correct and the other parties is not...... I guess I could ramble on and on about this but I always say BUY the COIN not the HOLDER
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Pillar of the Community
United States
581 Posts |
This is an interesting thread. It looks like the vast majority (or all?) were roosevelts with the FT designation (Full Torch) which PCGS calls FB. I'd especially like to know which were ICG and ANACs. I also think the results for the PROOF coins are very telling. I will study Heritage pictures side-by-side of PR67 - PR69 proofs from the 1950's and I swear it is some kind of dark magic. Half the time, a PR68 looks better than a PR69 from the same TPG. |
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Valued Member
United States
79 Posts |
I agree that one should buy the coin, not the holder, but the issue here is the grade given to a variety of coins by those paid to give third party opinion of the grade. If you read the fine print provided by each grading company you will find that there is no "standard", that they go by or guarantee their grade to be, other than by the definition that each company uses. Here again, there is NO standard. So, your coins meet the standard of grade by each company, that does not mean they were graded improperly, they were just graded by that companies guidelines of which some or more liberal than others. Personally, I stick to PCGS. They have tight standards, coins in their holders generally bring a premium and at this point, I trust them.
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Valued Member
United States
436 Posts |
These were all really nice grades to beginn with, and it looks like a bunch got downgraded...why exactly did you do this in the first place? Not only did it cost you a bunch of money to submit them, but you immediately lost worth for those who buy for investment only (not me, but losing value is losing value). I just don't understand...  |
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Valued Member
United States
79 Posts |
hippiebrian, if you were a collector as serious as a heart attack about his collection or investment, you might say that they are now properly graded. It is all in what you are looking for. I prefer PCGS graded coins, I will buy NGC graded coins, but at a discount. It is hard to find some coins, like foreign in PCGS holders, so you may not have a choice. If I were collecting say Morgan dollars or Lincoln cents, I would make a choice of which grading company I preferred and try to stick to coins graded by them only. |
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Valued Member
United States
365 Posts |
Extremely interesting experiment, as well as an interesting array of interpretations drawn from it.
How come the 2 NGC and 1 IGC didn't cross? Do they give an explanation for such instances?
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Valued Member
United States
436 Posts |
Although I am a serious hobbiest (don't know what the definition of serious as a heart attack collector is), I buy the coin and not the slab. I buy to complete sets, and if something catches my eye, which may be why I don't understand why the need to re-slab. Overall, NGC is accepted about as as PGCS, Therefore, say, an NGC MS-66 would be worth less than a PGCS MS-65 in most cases, which seems like a big risk just to have matching slabs.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5609 Posts |
Great topic, I believe there are people who will collect, and then there are people who will only collect certain"things. I would use the example above for a point to be made, I do not believe people are doing this, taking good money and good graded coins and are praying for the "new" grader to upgrade the coin, in this case PCGS, I believe if you hit a home run( get your wish for the better upgrade), you will now have a "slabbed coin" worth more money? I can in theory see what is trying to be done, only there is another side of this equation, 1st your money spent is totally a blind turkey shoot, you obviously have money to "gamble" with for what, the chance you might get some coin(s) back with the almighty PCGS label, and spend a small fortune in doing so, thats if you receive an up-grade. I also believe people who look for slabbed coins, are looking to "assure" them selves of a more positive return in the future, if you knew coins and are familiar with grading, why bother to get them slabbed at all, because if you state you are doing ALL this to possibly receive a deep cameo or PL MS70 coin, you can save your money and collect the thousands of coins out there that are "raw", just as nice if not nicer than the filthy rich TPG'S coins, they also love to have people like this to give them business and money .They have created a market on the corner, and most just shop there because of the name? I myself have a few slabbed coins because I loved the coin. I will never sell or look to cash in on the coins I love to hold and see and touch( with gloves ), you see I am as serious as any-one else here or else where about my collection, the major difference is, I am not looking to cash in some day, not that this is a bad idea, just do not think keeping the TPG'S in the millions of dollars every year is the way to go, invest your heart out, only IMHO, you are not only spending your money you could put towards your future bottom line, you are following the path of many who feel they would never buy a coin unless it is slabbed by this company or that one. Like most things, there is a time and a place for everything, I for a very long time, could not understand why people do this, now, I know there are many reasons, of which I feel are a total waste of money. It's not like we are talking about the Eliasberg Label on a 1895-S Morgan silver dollar in MS68!!! Again, just my opinion |
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Valued Member
United States
429 Posts |
I think what the problem is that we all collect differently and that there is no right or wrong way to do it. I do not collect slabbed coins, but I do have some. The coins that I have bought have some type of eye appeal that I could not find some where else and are not key dates or expensive coins. There are a number of people that do like to have a slabbed set and have them all graded by the same company and have them all in a certain grade, so why are we getting upset what an individual wants to do with his own set? If I had to choose a grading company 99% of the time I would go with PCGS and that is because their standards seem to a bit higher than everyone else. The times I have compared slabbed coins next to each other it has been obvious that there was more time spent on the process (even though they do not tell you how). The sad thing is to pick up a slab, tilt it to the side, and see a reflection from a scratch or nick on the coin and that the company has graded it MS70. I do have to agree that it is sad that there is no set standard from company to company, because if there was then we would not be having this debate at all. Not that long ago I was in a coin shop and looking at their half priced shelf and noticed they had the 2009S State Quarters there graded by PCGS as MS69 and selling for $10 a piece. So I looked at the dealer and said "they must have wanted a perfect coin and got mad when it wasn't". He laughed and said it happens all the time, someone comes in and thinks they have the perfect coin and get upset when they don't receive it. He then went on to say that with their experience that the same coin could go to one of the other grading companies and would come back with the MS70 that he wanted. He also went on to tell me where he had a coin that he thought was higher than the grade given and sent in a total of 5 different times, received 5 different grades and finally quit when the fifth grade was the highest given. To me, the grading companies are like the label on your car, is it a KIA or a Lexus? To some people this really matters and to some it does not matter at all. Personally, I would rather just own the coin, but would never complain about owning a highly graded slab. My big question is when is it enough? I can see having my Lincoln Wheat's graded and slabbed, but a new 2009D? Why pay $20-50 for a $5 coin, now that does not make any sense to me. |
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Valued Member
United States
206 Posts |
This post was only done as an informational first hand report of TPG From posts and readers I find that it sparked a lot of interest and well thought reply's. These where not expensive coins Roosevelt, however there where mostly key dates. No explanation was given for why the three coins did not cross two where proofs. One a 1951-s ms 67ft. On observation the bottom band was mush. Draw your on conclusions from this post, these are the results. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
one thing I would like to ask is, were these coins cracked out then sent in or were they sent in with the slabs intact? If I ever send in a coin that I think may upgrade (or even the same grade) I usually crack it out so they don't know what the other TPG graded it, that way they can't just bump it down one grade and say we are stricter than they are cause we graded it lower than they did |
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Replies: 21 / Views: 3,682 |
Posted 10/02/2009 12:46 am
