1746 MO 8 Reales Pillar Dollar (Accidental Purchase)help!

DIC Based on the picture alone - I can see nothing that says FAKE to me. The distortion of the dentils at the ridge on both sides is proof that the coin was edged AFTER the strike, but that is correct for the date. The fonts used and the deaign are correct and the fields and color look OK.

When you get it - weigh it accurately and get a Specific Gravity if possible.

1746 is a common date, but it has been copied with transfer dies. So be careful. You can take comfort provided you know and trust the dealer as long as he is NOT CHINESE.

When you get the coin post pictures of the edges especially at the overlaps. The lotus petals should REVERSE half way around.

jfransch- There certainly has been much mention of filled and smoothed chop marks in various threads, but never has it really been revealed. SO why would someone do this to an 8? I was under the impression that a lot of 8 enthusiasts like a few chops since they add historical context.

Well, I certainly think that this one may in fact be real since the edges of fakes typically do not have proper edge details such as overlaps. So you may have done alright.

As for the links to this ebay seller:
1. Definitely Fake
2. Probably fake, but I'm not 100% sure.
3. Probably Fake
4. I'm not sure, but looks suspicious.

In addition, I followed a few links to some of this dealer's other auctions. Most looked pretty fake to me. So this makes the ones that I was not 100% sure of look even more likely to be fake.

Pillars really are a beautiful series, and they are incredibly popular. But many Chinese firms produce fakes since there are no laws against it. In China the concept of "authenticity" is not exactly the same as beheld by the West. This really fits in perfectly with the lack of any kind of protection of intellectual property rights.

DIC Just a couple random thoughts.

First, the Chinese auctions you posted are in my estimation all fakes. The prices he is getting are far too high. I wonder where these coins will end up. Will the buyers mark the coins as fakes or pass them along to other unsuspecting buyers?

I looked at the sellers other auctions and I even suspect his slabbed coins may be fake. I have been sent several slabbed coins purchased in China and all so far were fakes. The plastic holders and labels were good copies, but in the cases I have seen the coins were poor copies. Many are made specifically for encapsulation so they don't bother with doing the edges at all. I even have a Mexican gold 50 Peso that came out of a PCGS slab - it is HALF the correct weight of an original with a BLANK edge.

The edge you describe is a VERY good sign that you got the real thing. Most forgers get the edges wrong. But for your own peace of mind the next purchase you should make is a digital scale. An inexpensive $50 or so 1/10th gram scale is what you need. Then you need to get a binocular microscope a decent 30X can do wonders and costs under $200. After that check police auctions for a triple beam balance scale 1/100th gram is good to do Specific Gravity tests.

The range of weight 1/2 gram is average tolerance. All overweight coins are a bit suspicious, but being up to 1/2 gram light can be explained as wear/ tolerance. At 1.4 grams underweight a dollar coin (8R) was removed from circulation. These "worn" coins were recycled at the mint. A real 8R with 1.4 grams of wear will be barely recognizable and may not have a date. So do not overestimate the loss of weight attributable to wear. The forgers rely on the fact that most people are unaware of the real loss of weight attributed to natural wear. Coins are VERY low profile so that when wear reaches 5% the coin will look worn out.

The reason ebay is so dangerous is because you only have photos to go by. In photos it is easy to hide defects that are obvious in person. Lighting plays a lot of tricks.

Here are my rules of thumb for a beginning collector.

NEVER buy a coin from China.
Never buy a coin from China.
Never buy ........ (get the point?)
Buy reference books and simple tools FIRST.
Never buy a rarity at a bargain price.
Go to coin shows and SHOP AROUND first.
Know the coin inside and out before buying.

You are far less likely to miss a super rarity than you are to get taken when you start collecting. Most coins are not so rare that if you pass on one example that you will never see another just like it.

Keep learning and above all have fun - this is a hobby.

jfransch- I totally agree, I never would buy an 8 off of ebay. It is just too risky. Also, would it be possible for you to post a couple of pics of your 1769. I would be rather curious to see the types of chops it bears.

I have been finding that 8's are really starting to become rather rare on the market in this day and age. There is a show in the midwest that I go to each spring, at which there are about 50 or so dealers. Each year I probably only see 2 to 5 colonial 8's. Often the dealers want absolutely exorbitant prices for them (i.e an 1807M 8 in VG with a repaired hole for $80). Has anyone else noticed there being a dearth of colonial Spanish coins at shows lately?

jfransch- WOW! That is such a nice looking 8! Thanks for showing me There are only 2 chops on each side, so it is not like they really are obliterating the design. Plus they are clearly Chinese characters rather than just puncture or other test marks. So those really are nice chops. So a very nice 8 + nice chops = a great coin. Quite frankly I would be happier with this coin if it had these chops than if it lacked them.

That is a very nice looking coin. Wish I had that kind of money to blow on coins.

Hope it's not a fake good luck.