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 Replies: 66 / Views: 7,897 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1082 Posts |
Quote:
...but I think it is outrageous for a buyer to give negative feedback to a seller for not checking the gift box. Oh, for sure. If anything, it's the seller's fault for not checking into it beforehand when deciding whether or not to bid. And yes, the amount written down for value should only be the amount of the winning bid, because that's what you paid for it. Postage costs are over and above the value of the coin and are a necessary evil, but they shouldn't be factored into the price of the coin, because it's the bid that wins it. As for the "McDonald's" arguement, that's so far off the point, it's a non-starter, as it deals with a tort and liability and not the perceived "criminal" nature of this situation. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1082 Posts |
Quote:And here's a bunch of Canadians who talk about importing stuff into Canada and don't seem to mind paying the duties: http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/..t-83134.html Yep, like this guy: "You could also ask the seller to put a $2.00 birthday card in the package and mark the item as a gift (this will keep you from being charged brokerage fees and most customs fees or taxes)." Not really sure, but I am sure a guitar being shipped through the mail or even guitar parts would probably raise all kinds of red flags as to whether the item should be set aside for Customs...but maybe that's just me. |
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Locked
822 Posts |
Quote:
and not the perceived "criminal" nature of this situation. Perceived?  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1082 Posts |
Yeah, "perceived".
The SED you are talking about is for large volume exporters -- it even talks about shipping containers and loading piers. The law that you have linked to itself deals with large exporters who may be underdeclaring the value of a shipment in order to mislead the IRS in regard to how much money they made on the transaction. That's a far cry from the typically used (in cases involving coins) C-1 form, which is the small green one that one would place on an envelope or a small packet, and which there is no other copy of, save for the one that goes on the envelope.
I can understand how you would have been misled by reading the section in question itself, but in reality it would be a stretch to apply it to someone selling a few coins at auction, unless the coins in question were worth a huge amount of money, or unless someone was doing a huge export business in coins. On a few isolated transactions it would be no big deal.
It seems to me like you are being far too paranoid about the issue and unduly so. It's not like the act in question ranks up there with murder or anything.
Edited by WpgLwr
11/19/2009 12:33 pm
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Locked
822 Posts |
You're saying that it is not against US law (just perceived) for me to outright lie on a customs form because I'm not some big exporter. That's absolute idiocy at it's worst.
Maybe I'll tell the next knucklehead that expects me to do this that I'll split the difference. You Paypal me $25, then I'll mark it as gift to save you the $50 tariff. We'll see how the shoe fits when there's a lawbreaking trail right back to them. I bet it don't fit.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Just as an observation--I wish customs officials were as even-handed as scubu in their application of law.  Perhaps then I wouldn't have to remind them of my rights under their own laws, regarding search and seizure.  Just as an aside, I find that Canada and the UK are rather tame towards mail customs, compared to some other countries. Customs in a few European nations have become extremely aggressive, particularly toward coins and other items of value. Packages get tied up in customs for weeks, and that's even when all the forms are properly filled out. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
Customs in a few European nations have become extremely aggressive, particularly toward coins and other items of value.
Packages get tied up in customs for weeks, and that's even when all the forms are properly filled out.
Completely unrelated numismatic-wise but still pertinent to the discussion. One of my labmates is from Milan and we are working on a Multiple Sclerosis genetic study with a consortium in Italy. We sent a package by FedEx to Italy over the summer, it contained human blood and CSF, saliva DNA, and a few antibody reagents for running assays. These types of materials fall under the regulations category of Biological Substance, Category B UN3373 and a shippers declaration and commercial use exemption forms have to be filled out for shipment. Mind you that this package originated from a medical school in the US and the recipient was a medical school in Italy, no commercial entities were involved at all. Obviously, a shipment like this is highly perishable and needs to be shipped on dry ice with the greatest expediency possible. Italian customs kept the package in their possession for three weeks before they deemed it to have no commercial value  Needless to say, there was no dry ice left in the cooler after three weeks and all precious human samples and custom antibodies worth hundreds of dollars were ruined all because they took their sweet time to decide that no customs duties or taxes were due. BTW, we sent a second shipment a month later with no changes to the paperwork because everything had been filled out properly in the first place- it arrived in three days  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1082 Posts |
Scubu, sometimes you have to look behind a law to see the class of persons it intends to apply to. The law you've quoted is one of those laws. It refers to such things as "falilure to file", which is something that doesn't apply to the average coin seller, the "Shippers Export Declaration", which refers to Shippers in a sense of a manufacturer or wholesaler, the "Automated Export System", which is likewise utilized only by manufacturers and huge volume shippers, The Department of Commerce, which likewise doesn't enter into the sphere of the average coin seller, etc.
You've got totally the wrong law here. It would never apply to you.
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Locked
822 Posts |
Cool. I'll start lying to make the overseas people happy. If anything ever comes up I'll just tell them it's OK because you said the law doesn't apply to me. That oughta get a laugh from a judge.
Seriously, do you realize how incredibly silly you sound?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1082 Posts |
Well, if you can't see it, there's no sense in my drawing you a picture, but suffice to say, the law in question deals with large commercial shippers and not individuals selling a few coins. I doubt that the US Government would really care one iota what representations you are making to the Canadian Government or its Customs department.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
If US customs does not care, then why am I hassled every time I ship something out of the country?
Regardless of how you view customs, the fact is (AND IT IS A FACT), that not complying with the rules and regulations is ILLEGAL.
You can paint a dramatic picture all day long, but come sundown, your story makes it no more legal.
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Locked
822 Posts |
Geez Louise. Will you buy it if it comes straight from the USPS postal worker manual? Quote:
123.712 Postal Service Employee's Acceptance of PS Form 2976
The Postal Service acceptance employee must do the following when accepting PS Form 2976 from the sender:
1. Instruct the sender how to complete, legibly and accurately, PS Form 2976, as required. The sender's failure to complete the form properly can delay delivery of the item or inconvenience the sender and addressee. Moreover, a false, misleading, or incomplete declaration can result in the seizure or return of the item and/or in criminal or civil penalties. The Postal Service assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of information that the sender enters on PS Form 2976.
2. Verify that the sender has entered the information on the form, and has signed and dated the form in the spaces provided on the left side and the right side of the form. The sender's address on the mailpiece must match the sender's address on PS Form 2976.
3. Enter the total weight of the package on the form, if the sender has not already done so.
4. Round stamp the right side of the form (the Post Office copy) and tell the sender that the Postal Service will retain this document for 30 days as a record of mailing.
5. To comply with U.S. Census Bureau requirements, it is the customer's responsibility to ensure an appropriate Exemption and Exclusion Legend is selected or displayed on PS Form 2976. In addition, items sent to Cuba may require a Proof of Filing Citation or AES Downtime Citation.
Note: To comply with international mail aviation security procedures, the Postal Service employee must endorse any item weighing 16 ounces or more that is not accepted by an authorized employee, or that is subject to uncertain acceptance conditions (e.g., if received through a collection box or left on an unattended dock), with a "customer notification DDD-2" sticker and "surface only" and return the item to the sender by surface transportation. Consult the most recent international aviation security procedures for comprehensive acceptance procedures. Quote:
123.722 Postal Service Employee's Acceptance of PS Form 2976-A
The Postal Service acceptance employee must do the following when accepting PS Form 2976-A from the sender:
1. Instruct the sender how to complete, legibly and accurately, PS Form 2976-A, as required. The sender's failure to complete the form properly can delay delivery of the item or inconvenience the sender and addressee. Moreover, a false, misleading, or incomplete declaration can result in the seizure or return of the item and/or in criminal or civil penalties. The Postal Service assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of information that the sender enters on PS Form 2976-A.
2. Verify that the sender has entered the information on the form and has signed and dated the declaration. The sender's address on the mailpiece must match the sender's address on PS Form 2976-A.
3. To comply with U.S. Census Bureau requirements, it is the customer's responsibility to ensure that an appropriate Exemption and Exclusion Legend, Proof of Filing Citation, or AES Downtime Citation is displayed on PS Form 2976-A. If this information is not entered, remind the customer that he or she may be subject to civil and criminal penalties for noncompliance.
4. If the sender wishes to insure the contents, the retail associate will record the insured amount in U.S. dollars and SDR value on PS Form 2976-A in the space provided. (See Exhibit 324.12 (p. 1) for conversion to SDRs.)
5. Weigh the parcel, enter the weight in block (8), and enter the applicable amount of postage and fees in the appropriate block in the upper right corner of the form.
6. Round stamp the form in the appropriate place on each copy (copies 1-6).
7. Remove the Post Office copy (copy 5) and tell the mailer that the Postal Service will retain this document for 30 days as a record of mailing. Remove the Mailer copy (copy 6) and give it to the mailer.
8. Round stamp any uncanceled stamps, and if postage is paid by meter, round stamp the front of the piece near the meter postage.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts |
I honestly do not know how there is a debate over this. One side is right, one side is wrong. One side goes with the law, one side goes with feelings and loopholes.
Looks fairly open and shut to me.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1082 Posts |
U.S. Customs doesn't care. They would only care if you were importing something into the U.S., because they would be charging you duty. They don't care if you are exporting something out of the country.
Ticking off the Gift box is a harmless thing -- it's not the "Big Brother breathing down your neck" think some would believe.
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Locked
822 Posts |
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Replies: 66 / Views: 7,897 |
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Posted 11/19/2009 11:19 am
