Idiot Ebay Buyers - Morphed - Customs Debate

Nope, no issues here. I just don't sit up nights worrying about the government coming to get me because I checked a box off on a form, that's all.

If this were true...I don't believe the U.S. Mint would be mailing out all the orders placed by the members on this forum and there would be a riot!

As for the "Saints" here that have never broken any laws that they felt were unfair or bothersome (like failing to stop completely at a stop sign or before making a right turn at a red light, or driving even 1 mile over the posted speed limit) This one's for you! Somehow I don't believe too many will honestly be able to accept that thumbs up!

While I generally consider myself "law abiding", I try to avoid writing "coins" on my custom forms.
Somehow, stating "coins" on the outside of a package is a bit worrisome to me...dunno

Now for a (hopefully) amusing story about customs agents and gifts.

A few years back, I took a train into Switzerland, hand-delivering a package--a wedding gift for newlywed friends. As we approached the Swiss border, a customs guard entered my car and approached me. Seeing the big box, he asked me what it was, and I told him "gift." "GIFT?!" He yelled, then kept screaming at me in German, almost jumping up and down--his hands tightening around a machine gun.

I had forgotten that "gift" in English means "poison" in German. Oops.
Next time--I'll be more careful.

You're talking about voluntary crap you decide to do yourself. You get the benefit and you assume the risk. I'm talking about a buyer asking you to forge a government document so they can cheat their country. All the benefit is on them, all the risk is on you, including the highly possible neg (like I posted above) that may cost you sales and will cost you money on your ebay bill. I can't believe you see one iota of similarity in these scenarios.

Now it's forgery? Don't think so. Wouldn't "forging" government documents mean printing off copies of it? For example, "forging a passport"? Or it could mean putting someone else's signature on it to make it look like they filled it out when they actually didn't.




How would the case in point be any less "voluntary"?




Hmmmm...wouldn't the possibility of repeat business be a possible benefit to the seller?




As I have said, I do disagree with negging in these situations, but then again, to some extent I could understand it if the buyer wasn't aware that his purchase would wind up costing him a lot more, especially if the seller's ads didn't say, "Please don't ask me to tick off the "Gift" box on the Customs form." That doesn't mean I agree with the practice of negging, just that I can understand why it would happen. However, I do have to admit that if I was reading a certain dealer's feedback in exercising my own due diligence and discovered negs related to the issue at hand, I would likely not bid. Unfortunately, for every seller who won't tick off the Gift box, there are probably three or four more who are only too happy to, not that this is intended to justify the situation to you, just that it is the reality of the situation.

Is it illegal? Technically speaking, yes, because you are deliberately deceiving Canadian Customs. However, Canadian Customs puts all of the justification and proof onus on the buyer, should they wish to challenge whether something is actually a Gift. Should they find that it isn't, they will merely reasses the value for duty, but even that is appealable under the mechanism they operate within. The risk is to the buyer, and not the seller. Reassessment is a fairly common practice, but it is done on a totally arbitrary basis by Canada Customs, and it is even something the buyer can apply for, for example, if the seller has erroneously included the cost of postage in the value of the item, and the duty and taxes were calculated by using that erroneous figure. In most cases, I would assume that reassessment occurs in regard to prices that are "too good to be true", and noting under the value that it was an " ebay auction win" usually diffuses this suspicion, especially since the smart buyer would likely print out the end of auction information from the ebay website.

As to why US Customs would bother to be involved I still do not understand. I do know that there are certain items they want to keep track of that leave the US with foreign buyers, for instance, antique cars. If I should go down to Minnesota and buy a car that is over 20 years old, it is classified as an antique. Before I cross the border with it, I have to stop in at US Customs to let them know I'm exporting it. The reason is apparently something to do with recordkeeping in regard to the export of America's cultural and historic past. I asked US Customs if there is a list of certain cars they would not allow to be exported, and they replied that there wasn't. Whether there is any similar program in regard to other items being exported, I do not know, but I doubt it, because the Customs forms you've mentioned are typical Customs forms that have always been in use.

The only thing I could see in regard to US Customs involvement would have to do (like I previously said) with large commercial shippers who would have to account for the value of the goods leaving and the resulting income that is created and has to be reported to the IRS; obviously, these two figures must match, or someone is committing a fraud in under-reporting their income.

The basic conflict here is that there's a world of difference between a casual ebay seller, and one who derives a significant income or at least sales volume from ebay. Morally, I wouldn't quibble over the concept of falsifying a Customs document for a $50 coin, but I sure as heck wouldn't ever do it deliberately in conjunction with one of my ebay sales. I'm not risking a 10-year selling record against the chance of running into a Customs official who's having a bad day.

Personally, I think where customs declarations are really abused are on retail goods with a significant price disparity over national borders. As noted earlier, excessive duties tend to motivate enterprising people to find ways around customs in large volume shipments--that's where profit motive creates criminal intent. I would guess that customs officials of most countries focus mainly on enforcing trade agreements, ie tariffs, import restrictions, etc.

If I wanted to be overtly criminal, I wouldn't be mailing coins--I would be shipping bulk, high-value items to Europe such as laptop and camera batteries--which have crushing tariffs there. But, next time I mail a coin to Canada...I'll carefully mull over the declaration.