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 Replies: 18 / Views: 3,260 |
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New Member
United States
23 Posts |
The VAM world site is featuring a counterfeit coin and it has an active VAM number. Should a fake be given the distinction of being called a legitimate "variety?" |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1424 Posts |
is it a counterfeit of an existing VAM variety or did they assign the counterfeit it's own VAM? |
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New Member
 United States
23 Posts |
i don't know. reads like its a well known fake
Edited by Bill4100
11/22/2009 7:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1424 Posts |
got a link to the article?
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
The VAM numbers were assigned prior to the type being identified as a counterfeit. The "Micro O" types were high-quality contemporary counterfeits, encompassing multiple mintage years and therefore eluded detection for quite a while. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
true, even PCGS authenticated quite a few of these before they were found out to be counterfeits
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New Member
United States
23 Posts |
If they are well known fakes, why are they listed with real coins? Shouldn't;t the VAM numbers be removed and replaced with "Fake" or something like that? Or are other VAMs also fake coins? |
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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts |
This is another exception, and catalog of Morgan dollars. The older counterfeits were actually made from silver. (most anyway) and usually a better quality... Sterling. which is .925 instead of .900 Leroy does attribute old counterfeits as VAMs. The best I can tell you is that it is an attempt to catalog all Morgan dollar Varieties. Since there are so many of the older micro O counterfeits out there, it makes sense to go ahead and attribute them and put them in the catalog, because many people have been fooled (including TPGs) The do bring a premium also, as they are collectible. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
these aren't coins minted in China like you see all over ebay, these were made and circulated right along side their counterparts. Allot of the times the silver content in the fakes were more than whats in the originals. You have to also look at when the VAM encyclopedia was written and at that time these weren't even discovered to be counterfeit and if you find one of these in a PCGS slab you will notice they sell for quite a premium over their counterparts with a regular MM also |
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New Member
United States
23 Posts |
But they are/were not legal coins issued by the US Mint...so it seems they have no place in a variety collection....I know that collectors should be aware of fakes, but shouldn't they be put out of main lists and have their numbers removed?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
there are allot of different known counterfeits that circulated with their originals that are collected by variety just because they are known counterfeits doesn't change the fact they are different varieties of them. As I said these are allot different than the junk being produced in China. I am not saying I would collect them along side the real ones but allot of people do consider them as a part of a collection and if they want a collection of known fake varieties they have to know the differences. Just because it wasn't minted by the US mint doesn't change the fact there are still a different variety just like all other known fakes that are collected
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New Member
United States
23 Posts |
i guess I'm not making my thoughts clear. fake large cents don't get sheldon numbers, why should fake dollars get VAM numbers? The things arent real coins, so why give them real coin numbers? collecting them is fine, but do it for what they are.... ..or maybe I'm just too stupid to figure it out.... |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2668 Posts |
You're spot on. I think the answer is that they have sufficient interest to command their own designation for the benefit of collectors, and the counterfeit aspect was discovered after the nomenclature became ingrained in collecting usage.
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New Member
United States
23 Posts |
Parklane64 - Thanks! Now I understand. I was thinking that they were known to be fakes for a long time. the VAMworld site does have them marked, so now its much clearer.
Bill
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
VAMworld has a 1902-O micro O on their home page right now, this one was apparently just assigned a VAM number- VAM of the Week: 1902-O VAM-67 (privately made)
The newest member of the 'family'
This contemporary counterfeit is yet another piece tied to the Micro O family. Almost as a
Halloween 'trick or treat', this piece was given to me by a friend who wanted nothing to do
with counterfeits. Unlike the recent flood of spurious pieces from China, this was produced
to circulate as a dollar. Several theories have been advanced to explain their origins, but we
may never know the truth. The intrigue surrounding the 'family' only adds to their appeal.
For a wealth of information on this subject, see Micro O and Other Counterfeit Morgan and
Peace dollars by Leroy Van Allen.
The VAM 67 illustrated here was reported October 27, 2009 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4541 Posts |
so all micro o's are counterfeit?
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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,260 |
Posted 11/22/2009 7:48 pm
