Sgs Coins Got Me Kicked Off...again!

Guess someone will have to keep the topics alive while you're gone. If you're going to continue reading the forum, my ebay username is wipped. They'll be hearing from me.

I agree that non-independent grading "services" like SGS and CCGS are bad for the hobby/business. One thing to keep in mind is the very low prices they get for these coins. The St. Gaudens $20 gold coins graded MS68 sell for only a few bucks over melt value, so I don't think too many people are really being fooled or screwed by the guy's tactics. It might be worth getting upset if they were realizing prices similar to the "real" grading services.

I don't deal with Morgans so I don't follow the ebay market for those coins. Is the situation different for them?

This is a problem that all collectors have had to deal with for many years. Just go into a coin shop and buy a coin in a flip labelled MS64. Then send it to a grading service of your choice and see if you receive an MS64 grade in return. 99% of the time you won't. That is the nature of the hobby/business and always has been. Just because you now see coins in slabs instead of flips doesn't mean anything new. The game is still the same. Whenever you buy a coin you still have to haggle over the grade and haggle over the price.

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Originally posted by ancientmoderngold

I agree that non-independent grading "services" like SGS and CCGS are bad for the hobby/business. One thing to keep in mind is the very low prices they get for these coins. The St. Gaudens $20 gold coins graded MS68 sell for only a few bucks over melt value, so I don't think too many people are really being fooled or screwed by the guy's tactics. It might be worth getting upset if they were realizing prices similar to the "real" grading services.

I don't deal with Morgans so I don't follow the ebay market for those coins. Is the situation different for them?

This is a problem that all collectors have had to deal with for many years. Just go into a coin shop and buy a coin in a flip labelled MS64. Then send it to a grading service of your choice and see if you receive an MS64 grade in return. 99% of the time you won't. That is the nature of the hobby/business and always has been. Just because you now see coins in slabs instead of flips doesn't mean anything new. The game is still the same. Whenever you buy a coin you still have to haggle over the grade and haggle over the price.

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I am getting my butt kicked trying to sell on ebay, because I sell raw Morgans, fairly graded and with excellent photographs. If I say it's a 64, it is a 64, or darn close. The typical ebay seller won't pay 64 money for that, when they can get an SGS 67 for the same money, even though my coin is of higher quality.

The alphabet TPG's are creating an atmosphere in which I cannot expect to get a fair price for my coins. For that reason, I've ceased buying Morgans for resale. I could put fifty coins on ebay today - the auctions are written - but I'm not willing to lose my shirt on them.

Of course it is shady and it should be stopped. Unfortunately, we have to do it ourselves! My point is that I am NOT going to wait, so I figured...get the word out and let people research the likes of SGS for themselves!

The ANA can't do anything and ebay will NOT do anything...the only thing we can do is make sure as many collectors know about the likes of SGS and Aboncom so they can tell 10 people who will 10 people and so forth.

Let people know about this forum and hopefully, after a few clicks, people will get it.

I'll tell you, it is very satisfying to get an email from a totally unknown person thanking you before they made the mistake of purchasing a SGS packaged 70 coin.

Remember...it doesn't take much to sour a collector's interest. NOBODY likes to be cheated and taken advantage of, so education and forums like this are now more important than ever!

My only worry is that, in our zeal to restore SGS to its' rightful place (walled up in the cellar, Poe-style), that we don't forget the other alphabet grades out there. Some of them are making inroads into SGS territory, and that scares me.

Zack: Please, give it a rest.

Zack, SINCE YOU HAVE, WITHOUT PERMISSION, introduced and mentioned my store in a false and negative light, it is only fair to offer this post here to set forth the truth, and have my say.

1. Before you go off and post any further attacks upon my store, or personal attacks upon me, or anyone else, I am going to ask that you go back and read the terms of use of this board.

2. Zack - I am going to ask you nicely, and publicly, to cease and desist your personal attacks upon me, upon my store, and upon my wife. SUCH PERSONAL ATTACKS GO FAR BEYOND ANY COMPLAINT YOU MAY HAVE ABOUT SGS AND ARE DEPLORABLE.

3. If you had observed the rules on ebay's discussion board, you would not have been bumped for 30 days, which means that it was quite serious infraction. Don't blame it on anyone else but yourself.

4. In the past, on other boards, you have been INFORMED that SGS is not an owner in Abon.

5. In the past, on other boards, you have been INFORMED that Abon does not own any part of Star Grading Service, also known as SGS.

6. You have been told under very specific language, that Stevesgiftshoppe has no financial or legal interest in Abon, nor does stevesgiftshoppe have any interest whatsoever in Star Grading Service (SGS).

7. You have been given a cease and desist notice to no longer say or suggest publicly or privately, that Stevesgiftshoppe is one and the same as SGS. SO DON'T IT ANY MORE. THANK YOU.

8. Please stop your nasty posts.

9. A bit of wisdom: Revenge is like drinking hemlock and expecting the other person to keel over. YOU ARE ONLY HURTING YOURSELF.

10. Stevesgiftshoppe (my store) is a seller of coins, musical instruments, books and decorative items. In the coin arena, we offer PCGS slabs, NGC slabs, SGS slabs, and raw coins.

11. No matter what you say or do, I will continue to sell coins on any venue I so choose. If you don't like a brand that I sell, simply don't buy it. However, don't, and I mean, don't tell others to stop buying from me.

12. Because you have sold coins in the past, you are therefore classified as a competitor, and such false statements upon another seller does in fact constitute what is classified as unfair competitive practices.

13. ZACK (OR MIDAS) OR WHOMEVER YOU ARE, YOU NEED TO STOP AND TAKE A BREAK, AND PLEASE GIVE IT A REST. PLEASE.

14. If we ever meet at a coin show, I hope to be able to sit down with you and buy you a coffee and talk about it more.

So, FOR THE REST OF YOU ON THIS BOARD, you have now have read my side of it.

Please observe this request -- all of you.

Thank you.

Welcome to a REAL coin forum StevesGiftShoppe, or should I say zackg0ld (formerally ebay I.D. warrengacsi) or whatever your name is. Intentionally coming up with an ebay I.D. (zackg0ld) so you can impersonate yours truly?!?...tisk, tisk, tisk.

What's the matter? You can't defend SGS/Aboncom on your own merit? You can't defend SGS/Star Grading Service on how they package and market their own inventory with gold tape and MS/PR70 labels? So you cry to ebay that I alerted other collectors about your (ahem) store and how SGS unethically markets these coins?

There's a bunch of smart collectors in this forum. You made some interesting claims, most notably that Aboncom and SGS aka Star Grading Service have nothing to do with one another (Your #4 and #5 points). Oh really? Excuse me as I have to laugh.



I also posted before that if you are NOT associated with Aboncom/SGS, then you probably got stuck with these coins and you are just trying to unload them to other unsuspecting newbies. Can you really say with a straight face that what Abon/SGS is doing is ethical?

I guess we will let this REAL coin forum set you straight! Many know the true story of SGS and Aboncom from Ohio. This exchange should be fun!

Ironically, this is a terrible or excellent example of what is going on.

Why SHOULD a seller be so defended of his products if that is the source of problem? The seller himself isn't a great example either - by referring to someone else the problem is nothing worse than not knowing what he is selling. Taking for example, if you are in the industries of illegal drugs, those who grow them are at fault, but those who resell it are equally wrong, as they should be knowing what exactly they are selling. Wrong analogy?