Coin World Guest Commentary

Perhaps when it comes out you could attach a link?

Here is the text.

It is with great interest and fascination that I surf from numismatic Web site to Web site watching the constant debates about the Chinese counterfeits and ebay!

Having been involved in Canada with the actual battle with ebay about counterfeit/replica coins, I find it interesting that people will howl on Web sites about the counterfeit issue, scream for ebay heads for allowing the sale of the counterfeits, and that lynch mobs which quickly appear when a seller is thought to be "knowingly selling fakes."

The one question I always ask is: "Have you done anything about it?"

Here are some responses:

"Yes, I reported it to ebay."

"It is not my job to police that site."

"Why bother, nothing will be done."

My thoughts on all three answers: WRONG!

I watch people get fleeced everyday with the counterfeit U.S. coins which are being made in China. I am astounded that as "Americans" you (the American collecting public) allow this to go on.

It took almost two years of kicking and screaming to get authorities here in Canada to listen. However, I do not see an individual or group in the United States leading the fight.

I talk with collectors from south of the border constantly. The main response when challenged is: "The authorities have bigger fish to fry" or "They are not interested!"

Well, my response to that is: "I did not realize that the U.S.A. was the only country whose 'authorities' are busy with 'other bigger fish.'"

I am going to give you a push in the right direction.

Here is a Web site. http://jinghuashei.com/ Yes, it belongs to one of the factories in China that counterfeits U.S. coins.

Read it closely. See anything there that gets your attention? How about, "I will provide coins with or with out 'Copy'"?

OK, the United States' Hobby Protection Act says that is counterfeiting.

Next, how about if the purchase of one of these counterfeit coins is conducted using Paypal? He states at his Web site that he accepts Paypal and provides instructions encouraging buyers to use it.

OK, he is counterfeiting. If Paypal is used to facilitate the transaction, then is not Paypal laundering money for a counterfeiter?

Wake up people. Look at the ammunition this individual gives you on his own Web site. He is breaking U.S. laws. Paypal and ebay are American companies. Need a map?

Get on a soap box other than numismatic Web sites. Surely there is someone who will fight for the numismatic heritage of the United States of America.

Maybe after the Olympics, I will attempt to get Steven Colbert (The Colbert Report) involved. He wouldn't let anyone hurt the American heritage.

Every individual has an agenda. Numismatics is a hobby for most, a livelihood for some. If new entrants into the hobby get burned by a counterfeit, or the paranoia counterfeits create turns new collectors off and they leave in significant numbers, the hobby will die.

Think about it. It is time to act.

.................................................................

MIKE MARSHALL, a collector from Ontario, Canada, led a two-year investigation documenting 46 cases of counterfeit Canadian coins being sold on ebay.com. He turned over his information to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police who used it to convince ebay's administrators in July 2009 to remove all auction listings for "replica" Canadian coins and notes.

An American buying a coin not marked with copy is not against American law? Paying for it with Paypal, an American company...is not against American law and Ebay/Paypal policy?

While there is some logic in the above I dont think the Canadian and American situation can be compared.

The reason Canada has few fakes coming in from China and the US has many is simply the fact that more money can be made by faking US coins (the US has a larger number of collectors and in general their coins demand a higher price). It has little to do with any Canadian laws that have been brought in to stop them. If you are going to invest in machinery, presses, staff and materials then you will fake the coins that give you the biggest return for your money. We dont see fakes on the US coinage scale in any other region of the world or in ancient coins as on the whole they demand a smaller price.

China seems unwilling to clamp down on their fakers because it will cost them jobs - give me 30 minutes on ebay and I'll get you a selection of US coins, an Ipod, a pair of Nike trainers, a Louis Vuitton bag, an Omega watch and pretty much anything you want thats being made there and touted on ebay as the real thing.

I dont see anyway of stopping this - nobody in the world seems strong enough to challenge China over this as they are scared of loosing the place as a sweatshop for the companies that are using it to rack up huge profits in there own countries. Official Ipods and Nike trainers are made there along with countless other products for Western companies by people earning $1 a day. Until Western companies are less dependant on China for big profits at home then nothing will be done about coins.

The Canadian law is a start but if the fakers want to get around it all they do is ship into the country in bulk then sell it from a Canadian address.

There is prob even a lot of people in the industry who secretly dont want it to stop - I bet demand for coin authentication and grading in the US has gone up in-line with the increase in fakes. I think this is a rip off anyway but they are sure to be making bigger profits now that consumer confidence has gone down.

Not sure if anyone can answer this and think it may be a bit off topic from the original post but it is still along the lines of the original 'fake' subject.

I have been looking at some fake slabs on the internet - they are supposed to be from PCGS and look exactly like the originals but have fake coins inside them. All of the text, grades, ref numbers and barcodes along with the holograms have been faked too.

The question is can these be checked in anyway to ensure they are fakes - Is there anything on the PCGS website where a number can be punched in and a pic of the original will appear so it can be compared to the fake.

It seems to me that if the fakers are going to go to the trouble of faking the slabs and accompanying items and then place a similar looking coin (grade wise) into the slab then there is nothing at all that can be done to tell if a fake is real other than to have it reslabed?

Not unless they are buying it here in this country. If they are making the deal with someone in another country where it is legal, then yes it is legal. Bringing it INTO the country is another matter.



No because once again you are using paypal to pay for a legaly purchased item that can legally be sold at the sellers location. Now it turns out that ebay DOES require the copies/replicas to be marked in accordance with th HPA. But that doesn't make them any less legal to buy and pay for, it just gives you leverage to get auctions shut down until the sellers switch from a REPLICA stamp to a COPY stamp.