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Upgrading - What Is It?

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snitchard's Avatar
United States
420 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2010  10:59 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add snitchard to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Hello,

When working with circulated or uncirculated coins in folders (circulated) or albums (uncirculated) I have heard a lot of people talk about "upgrading" and I'm assuming for uncirculated coins that would mean going from an MS-64 to an MS-65, for example. When working with circulated coins how does one know what an "upgrade" is? Also, once I upgrade a coin what do I do with the old coin?

I recently purchased an uncirculated 2000-D Sacagawea dollar from my local dealer. This was what I would call an "impulse buy" and therefore I didn't do a ton of research or anything like I normally do but I will say that the coin isn't what I was expecting and I will upgrade it in the future.

I'm visually impaired and therefore can't grade a coin to save my life so I go off of what I think looks good and what looks good to me may not look good to another collector and vice versa. There is one online dealer who uses ranges for the uncirculated coins he sells. He considers choice BU coins to be anywhere from MS-63 to MS-64 and Gem BU MS-65 or better. My local dealer says he doesn't grade the coins he sells.

Anyone know of similar situations?

Thanks,
Rich
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wheatguy's Avatar
United States
1534 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2010  11:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wheatguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Upgrading merely means replacing a coin in a collection with a different coin of the same denomination, date, etc. Say for example you have a 2001-D Sac dollar. You then see another 2001-D Sac Dollar that appeals to you more, and then you replace it. You can do whatever you want to the other one, such as spending it, selling, or whatever appeals to you.

Also, you shouldn't have paid much for the 2000-D Sacagaea Dollar. You can get a nice example for near face value, or at face if you pick up a $25 roll of dollar coins.
Edited by wheatguy
03/22/2010 11:09 am
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16826 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2010  12:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
People who talk about "upgrades" are usually people who only want to keep just one of each "different type" of coin, however "different type" might be defined by that collector, yet nevertheless end up acquiring a second example of a certain type, and decide to replace their original coin with their new one. It's not really an "upgrade" if you're going to decide to keep both of them anyway.

"Upgrades" can be either deliberately acquired (because you know that the coin you just bought is better than the one you already had) or acquired accidentally (for example by being among a bulk lot of coins purchased for other reasons than the presence of an upgrade). The inferior specimen, the one that has been "upgraded" or replaced in the collection, is usually no longer wanted and is usually sold or given away.

A personal example: I recently purchased this bunch of Chinese coins off of GO here in the CCF auctions forum; I've only just now finished going through them. Of the 79 coins in the bulk lot, I already had 29 of them - most of these 29 coins I consider to be "duplicates" and will be disposed of in due course, probably at my local coin club auction.

But four of those duplicates were actually better than the coins of those types I already had in my collection; those four coins were "upgraded": the newly purchased coin takes the place of the coin that was originally in the collection, and the original coin will join the other duplicates in the future sale. The database entry for that coin was upgraded with the new coin's condition and acquisition date. Each coin in the database is given a "Sap Number" (yes, that really is what I call them) and the Sap Number for upgraded coins is given an "r" suffix to reflect its "replacement" or upgraded status. Two of the four upgrades in this lot were given an "r2" suffix, meaning that I've already upgraded this coin once before, and this was my second upgrade for the type.

So, the statistics for this bulk lot were: 50 "keepers", 4 "upgrades" and 25 "duplicates". That's a pretty good ratio for me these days... which is why I was attracted to the lot in the first place.


Quote:
...so I go off of what I think looks good and what looks good to me may not look good to another collector and vice versa...

Absolutely; they're your coins, so if/when you upgrade you should keep the coin that you personally like the best, irrespective of it's assigned or technical grade. Many times I've "upgraded" a coin with a new coin that actually had a technically lower level-of-preservation grade but nevertheless appealed to me more, either because of toning (rarely) or the absence of particular defects on the old coin that were bothering me, like a distracting nick or edge knock or a small corrosion spot.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Metalman's Avatar
United States
7123 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2010  3:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metalman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
P-01 AG-3,G-4 G-6, VG-8 VG-10, F-12 F-15, VF20 VF-35, EF40 EF45, AU-50 AU-58.

there are a couple of ways to upgrade within the same grade, one is technical and one is personal, or the eye appeal of the coin to the collector, both are right ways to upgrade circulated coins.
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Thailand
1509 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2010  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thai-vic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll go with with all the people who have replied.
Whenever I get a duplicate I'll always compare it to the one I already I have. I'm not very good at grading. Most times it's fairly obvious that one coin is superior above another, after that it's eye appeal. If I change a coin in my collection for one that I think is a better grade then that to me is an upgrade.
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upstate's Avatar
United States
3283 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2010  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add upstate to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
About 40 years ago, when I put most of my lincoln collection together,I had no money. Most of the scarcer coin are only of good grade. Now I'm upgrading a lot of the set. I wish I was using the price sheet from then!
Valued Member
snitchard's Avatar
United States
420 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2010  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snitchard to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

When upgrading circulated coins in Whitman folders, how do I get the old coin out of the folder? I have enough trouble getting the coins into the Whitman folder.

Thanks,
Rich
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188213 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2010  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You should be able to push gently the coin from behind. It is not always easy, and sometimes only enough of it will pop out to get a fingernail underneath. Do not push too hard, or you might punch a hole in the folder.

In my opinion, if you are going to be upgrading a lot of these coins in your folders, you might want to consider moving them to albums.
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spock1k's Avatar
India
229 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2010  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add spock1k to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
upgrading is the term for certifying that one has yet to learn about coin collecting economics IMHO

if your dealer wants to sell you a coin today with the tagline you can upgrade later run like there is no tomorrow
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twohawks's Avatar
United States
1551 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2010  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add twohawks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thats funny "BUT SO TRUE"
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2010  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Upgrading is how you improve your Number 1 collection, and either start or improve you number 2 (3,4,5...) collection(s).

(Collectors of early US coinage often have multiple collections like that.)
Edited by Conder101
03/23/2010 9:03 pm
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nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
15422 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2010  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two tips of my cap to Sap for his thoughtful, informative and well written reply.

I learned a lot in that short reply post ..... Thanks Sap!

David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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